Barkweave reproduced

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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AWilson
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Barkweave reproduced

Post by AWilson »

This is a wild shot but is there a swatch I can get for 49 upholstery fabric? I think, think, I can get it reproduced. Not cheap but just might be doable. If anyone has junk upholstery with 4 or so square inches maybe I can do it. I believe it is the barkweave brown for the red 49's.
49 A model, serial 18963
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n2582d
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by n2582d »

I applaud your effort in this quest for originality! Here's a couple of random thoughts on this.

- How did you come to the belief that your upholstery fabric is Barkweave Brown?

-Barkweave Brown and Barkweave Green are shown to be upholstery selections in the '48 IPC. Barkweave Brown went with 170's that had the Insignia Red trim in 1948.

-Bruce took some good photos of what I believe is Barkweave Green on a low time unmolested '48 here.

-Barkweave Brown was used as early as 1946 on C-120/140's. Lorraine Morris would be a possible source for authentic fabric. See taildraggeraviation.com

-This photo shows the seat fabric well. By the piano key switches the plane is a 1952 or earlier model. Here none of us could really nail down what year.

-It's possible that C-190/195's used identical fabric to C-170's during these years. Barron Aviation would be the ones to ask about that.

-Both Steve Jacobson (N5752C) and Don Lindholm (N1424D) have/had award-winning C-170A's. Although they are not 1949 models, if you look at the IPC, the seat back cover part number is the same regardless of year. (The seat bottom cover p/n changes depending on s/n). This leads me to think that the fabric remained unchanged from 1949 through 1951. In Plane & Pilot magazine Steve Jacobson says,
One of the biggest challenges we encountered during restoration was finding cabin-interior fabric details and specifications. This information was not readily available until Cessna started producing the 170B model. Just when we were about to give up on the original interior, Steve Fushelberger, a former Cessna employee, put me in touch with Ron Partridge, Customer Service Manager, at Cessna’s Propeller Division. With the permission of Jack Pelton, Cessna’s CEO, Ron was able to provide me with archived factory engineering interior drawings for N5752C. This included the original fabric specs, as well as the dimensions and locations of the stitch lines.

-Cessna Support can be reached at 316-517-1700 or piston_support@txtav.com. I would ask them if drawings for the front seat covers bottoms, p/n 0511301-80, and back, p/n 0511301-88, include details about the type of fabric used.

-A final thought is to put an advertisement in the Flypaper and/or the 170 News for this swatch of fabric. You’ll reach a lot of members there that don’t frequent this forum.
Gary
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AWilson
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by AWilson »

I appreciate the leads. I will check into them.
I thought for sure Barkweave Brown was stated somewhere on the forum for a 49. But I now see that Barkweave Brown is an assumption I made as it is only noted for a 48.
That being said the Cessna sales order for my 49 says color red. The pack list says “Color - Brown -Lock No. HG-23”
Could that be referencing a brown upholstery? If not, what is brown referencing?

The reason im thinking of going as original as I can is because im slowly learning my aircraft is already very close. So it may be appropriate to give originality strong consideration. Just seems like the right thing.
Although I’ve see a 140 with a gorgeous dark red/maroon classy vinyl interior.
49 A model, serial 18963
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

I would call on Mike or Dillion Barron of Baron Aviation. They are 195 restorations specialists, and beside that Dillion restored a 170B to better than factory condition. I believe They had fabric made to match Dillion's 170 seats or perhaps they located some bolts of original. Either way I'll bet they could give you some hints as to how to proceed with your challenge.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

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DWood
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by DWood »

I have brown material that was under upholstery that was added to an early 48 170.
I can't post pictures since I am not a paying member.
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schnepel
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by schnepel »

Seat Cushion
Seat Cushion
Door Panel
Door Panel
This is the original exact type upholstery material that was installed in a 1949 Cessna 140A. According to records when I purchased the aircraft one of its previous owners, Gene Sheehan worked hard at putting the aircraft back in its original configuration as it was when it left Cessna in late December 1949. Gene discovered like many have in the past that the original fabric was still attached to the seat frames and door panels underneath the then present upholstery covering when he purchased the airplane in the late 1980's. By having a sample of the original fabric Gene was able to trace down the fabric to a company known as Lebaron Bonney Company, but unfortunately they have gone out of business. You might get lucky with Gilbreath Upholstery Supply in Iowa, telephone
515-288-6001
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n2582d
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by n2582d »

Was this the same Gene Sheehan who developed the Quickie back in the late ‘70s?

We have found a lot of overlap in Cessna paint colors to those used on automobiles of the late 40's and early 50's. I was wondering if "Barkweave" might also be a fabric borrowed from cars of the time. All I could find was this entry #7 from a Packard forum.

Here are Dan’s photos from “under the covers on the early 48 170 sn 18041.” I’m not sure what to make of the difference between this fabric and that of the ‘48 which Bruce documented in the Mx Library.
Click to Enlarge
Click to Enlarge
Click to Enlarge
Click to Enlarge
Here's a close-up:
Screen Shot 2023-09-18 at 5.20.05 PM.png
Obviously it's good to get a sample that has been sheltered from the sun. Some time back I received this photo from Charlie Beyer of original fabric on his '52 B model. Note the contrast where the fabric has been hidden behind the rear ash tray.
IMG_0595.jpg
A similar difference is seen at the seam of the rear seat upholstery:
'52 rear seat back.jpg
Last edited by n2582d on Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gary
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schnepel
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by schnepel »

n2582d wrote:Was this the same Gene Sheehan who developed the Quickie back in the late ‘70s?
No, I apologize, I should have said Jack Shahan not Gene Sheehan (I should have looked at the documentation before posting my previous pictures and comments. I'm teaching private pilot ground school currently at a local college to a group of students, and we were discussing canard type airplanes recently, and the Quickie design along with the Tom Jewett/Gene Sheehan names came up).

Jack Shahan was an Eastern Airlines pilot who lived in the Atlanta, Ga area. Jack purchased the aircraft in the mid 1980's at the then Stone Mountain airport north of Atlanta, and then spent the next several years putting the airplane back in its original condition it was when it left the factory in late December 1949. Jack did a lot of research about the aircraft's serial number by talking many times to Bil Murray at Cessna Aircraft in order to gain information. It's pretty much still a stock airplane with the same as the original upholstery, carpet, and headliner fabrics, as well as its original external finish. According to Bill Murray the airplane was one of two (2) 140A's out of the production run of 525 aircraft between 1949-1951 that left the factory in an all painted condition rather than the more normal bare aluminum with trim paint finish. Evidently the original purchaser opted for an all paint finish of canyon cream and insignia red trim. Even the landing gear still sports the original Goodyear wheels and brakes (finding parts for those are becoming a chore, and I've decided it will no doubt be better to install newer Cleveland wheels and brakes). It does have a radio and transponder, but Jack devised a way to mount those on a push in type radio tray that allows the avionics to be recessed in the panel to permit an original G.E. low frequency radio faceplate to be mounted when it was parked at airshows.
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n2582d
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by n2582d »

Shahan ... Sheehan ... I can see how those two names could get confused.

You really piqued my interest when you wrote that your plane is painted in it's original colors of "canyon cream and insignia red trim". I came across a Titanine color chart that shows that combination. It is discussed here. Here's the relevant sample:
Titanine Sample.jpg
Could you add a picture of your plane to that thread? Also, if you look through that thread, you'll come across a photo of F.C. Barr's fleet of six C-140A's with full paint schemes. Do you think these were painted at the factory or after being delivered? As the N numbers are clearly displayed it would be interesting to contact the current owners to see if they have any information on this.
F.C. Barr's C-140's.png
F.C. Barr's C-140's.png (60.42 KiB) Viewed 61126 times
The following page in that thread shows another C-140A with an overall paint job.

Well, I've done an admirable job of hijacking this thread. :oops: Sorry about that. To get it back on track, you asked about the following on your pack list, “Color - Brown -Lock No. HG-23”. I would agree with you that this a reference to the interior upholstery color. The lock number should match the number on your key and on the pilot's door lock. See these cards from Wichita State University archives for similar data on C-180's.
Last edited by n2582d on Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gary
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AWilson
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by AWilson »

I'm kinda zeroing in on that Canyon cream because my fuse panel looks like that color. I appreciate all the info and will keep working on it.
49 A model, serial 18963
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AWilson
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by AWilson »

DWood wrote:I have brown material that was under upholstery that was added to an early 48 170.
I can't post pictures since I am not a paying member.
I'll send you a separate email so you can get me a picture.
Thanks!
49 A model, serial 18963
DWood
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by DWood »

I'll send you a separate email so you can get me a picture.
Thanks!
Andrew
Gary (n2582d) posted pics (above) of the material that I have.
Thx, Dan
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n2582d
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by n2582d »

AWilson wrote:I'm kinda zeroing in on that Canyon cream because my fuse panel looks like that color. I appreciate all the info and will keep working on it.
Interesting. I have been under the impression that Canyon Cream was only used as an option for an exterior color on the very few aircraft that had overall paint jobs. The 1948 C-170 and the 1949-1951 C-170A IPC shows that the original interior color was "Silver French Gray" and the interior trim color was "Dark India" for aircraft with the Insignia Red exterior stripe. Search those terms (with the quotation marks included) to find discussion and photos of panels in these colors.
Gary
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schnepel
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by schnepel »

N9633A.jpeg
Ole Jack Shahan evidently didn't get the cream correctly done. He used a Sterling Systems paint that is labeled "cream" however, from what you've posted Gary, the canyon cream that Cessna utilized in those days has more yellow tint to it. What on the airplane looks more white that the Cessna Canyon Cream. I can say that the interior fabric, headliner and instrument panel are original with the exception of the attitude indicator.
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n2582d
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Re: Barkweave reproduced

Post by n2582d »

Beautiful! Looks just like the picture of a 1950 140A on page 128 of “Cessna: A Master’s Expression”. Is yours considered a ‘49 or a ‘50 model?
IMG_0493.jpeg
IMG_0493.jpeg (49 KiB) Viewed 60852 times
Gary
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