Rusty Water in fuel tank?
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
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- Posts: 165
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Rusty Water in fuel tank?
Hi everyone—
I keep finding water in my 1956 170b's starboard fuel tank (not unusual for the wet coastal BC climate where I live).
HOWEVER, the water I'm sumping from the drain is rust coloured.
Does this mean my tanks are rusting, or there is some other part within the fuel tank which is rusting? I've heard the top fuel cap and mount assembly or can rust causing these issues, but I didn't see any.
It's worth noting the tank is not leaking at all. The port side tank has a new venting style fuel cap and there is no rust coloured water in that tank.
Thoughts?
I'm not sure how to upload photos, so check out the pics of the same forum post I made on Backcountry.com https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/rust ... 60#p346060
I keep finding water in my 1956 170b's starboard fuel tank (not unusual for the wet coastal BC climate where I live).
HOWEVER, the water I'm sumping from the drain is rust coloured.
Does this mean my tanks are rusting, or there is some other part within the fuel tank which is rusting? I've heard the top fuel cap and mount assembly or can rust causing these issues, but I didn't see any.
It's worth noting the tank is not leaking at all. The port side tank has a new venting style fuel cap and there is no rust coloured water in that tank.
Thoughts?
I'm not sure how to upload photos, so check out the pics of the same forum post I made on Backcountry.com https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/rust ... 60#p346060
- Reece
1956 Cessna 170b
Nanaimo, BC Canada
1956 Cessna 170b
Nanaimo, BC Canada
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
Well... the FIrst thing to note is that the vented cap is required by AD note to be installed on the RIGHT tank....and the pic shows what appears to be a non-vented cap.
As for the rusty water... I’m going to venture that your have rusted hardware at the fuel filler-neck and that old non-vented cap. You might also have a rusting steel fuel-drain or “curtis” valve. I’d suggest you replace the cap on that right tank with a serviceable vented cap and consider pulling the drain valve out for inspection. While it’s out...you might want to “flush” the tank to get all the water out.
Hope this helps.
As for the rusty water... I’m going to venture that your have rusted hardware at the fuel filler-neck and that old non-vented cap. You might also have a rusting steel fuel-drain or “curtis” valve. I’d suggest you replace the cap on that right tank with a serviceable vented cap and consider pulling the drain valve out for inspection. While it’s out...you might want to “flush” the tank to get all the water out.
Hope this helps.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
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- Posts: 165
- Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:34 am
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
Thanks for this. I'll replace the cap, drain, and filler-neck hardware.GAHorn wrote:Well... the FIrst thing to note is that the vented cap is required by AD note to be installed on the RIGHT tank....and the pic shows what appears to be a non-vented cap.
As for the rusty water... I’m going to venture that your have rusted hardware at the fuel filler-neck and that old non-vented cap. You might also have a rusting steel fuel-drain or “curtis” valve. I’d suggest you replace the cap on that right tank with a serviceable vented cap and consider pulling the drain valve out for inspection. While it’s out...you might want to “flush” the tank to get all the water out.
Hope this helps.
Is the hardware for the filler neck part 41 or 30 here? ---> https://backcountrypilot.org/me/my-phot ... toid=57585
Also—I have the newer style fuel drain, not the Curtis valve, but it isn't listed in the parts catalog. Suggestions on a part #?
Sincerely,
Relatively new to aviation.
- Reece
1956 Cessna 170b
Nanaimo, BC Canada
1956 Cessna 170b
Nanaimo, BC Canada
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
Do you mean a CAV-170?
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- Posts: 165
- Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:34 am
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Is this the exact one I should order?DaveF wrote:Do you mean a CAV-170?
- Reece
1956 Cessna 170b
Nanaimo, BC Canada
1956 Cessna 170b
Nanaimo, BC Canada
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
First off, join the association. Save yourself alot of grief and get all the good info you need. Is Mike doing your annuals? Good guy but the info here would be very helpful for him as well.
I know that plane somewhat, it was for sale in Vanderhoof a few years ago. Prior to that it might have been in Alberta and possibly sold out of Victoria probably 10-12 years ago I’m guessing but my date may be off there. I guess previously owned by someone who flew for Kiwi Air but that might have been somewhere else.
From your questions you could use some guidance and you won’t find a better place. As well, there’s a bunch of us in the lower mainland and most of us a members as well. Just across the border at S43 a bunch more plus instruction.
Not being critical here but your plane is interesting in that last time I saw it I guestimated I was looking at at least 4 planes. Doesn’t matter, just means its had a good life out there anfd should be good to you as well.
Rust issue as mentioned, likely your drain valve and filler neck and cap. Plane probably sat somewhere with minimal fuel, never a good idea. Be real careful removing it, use mouse milk or equivalent penetrating fluid to help removal. Filler neck that’s a bigger problem but likely the issue is the plane has sat for awhile with little fuel in the tank. Do you have a belly drain? Is the gascolator clean and has the fuel bowl drain been removed to clean out any debris? Should have been done on the annual but doesn’t mean it was and again you want to have that done to be on the safe side.
I’m in YPK PM if you need help anytime
Again godd luck and safe flying should the weather lift
PM me I’m in YPK if you need anything. Good luck and safe flying if the weather breaks
I know that plane somewhat, it was for sale in Vanderhoof a few years ago. Prior to that it might have been in Alberta and possibly sold out of Victoria probably 10-12 years ago I’m guessing but my date may be off there. I guess previously owned by someone who flew for Kiwi Air but that might have been somewhere else.
From your questions you could use some guidance and you won’t find a better place. As well, there’s a bunch of us in the lower mainland and most of us a members as well. Just across the border at S43 a bunch more plus instruction.
Not being critical here but your plane is interesting in that last time I saw it I guestimated I was looking at at least 4 planes. Doesn’t matter, just means its had a good life out there anfd should be good to you as well.
Rust issue as mentioned, likely your drain valve and filler neck and cap. Plane probably sat somewhere with minimal fuel, never a good idea. Be real careful removing it, use mouse milk or equivalent penetrating fluid to help removal. Filler neck that’s a bigger problem but likely the issue is the plane has sat for awhile with little fuel in the tank. Do you have a belly drain? Is the gascolator clean and has the fuel bowl drain been removed to clean out any debris? Should have been done on the annual but doesn’t mean it was and again you want to have that done to be on the safe side.
I’m in YPK PM if you need help anytime
Again godd luck and safe flying should the weather lift
PM me I’m in YPK if you need anything. Good luck and safe flying if the weather breaks
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
How much info is contained in this website ? ; if you do become a member, read everything here and understand everything, you’re probably ready to become an AME M1 (you also get an automatic Psy D degree if you comprehend all of George Horn’s posts)
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10313
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
George hit it on the head but I will emphasize it. If you haven't already found it I'm confident when you pull your sump drain you will see it is all rusted. Just replace it. This is the source of your rust. Actually water and this steel valve is the source.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
Just to reiterate: I was suggesting only that you replace the cap, the drain valve, and flush out the tank. Although it’s certainly your choice, I would not be eager to change out the filler-neck or it’s assoc’d hardware if close inspection with a mirror doesn’t reveal something obviously unairworthy. (The filler-neck cavity is notorious for holding water after a rain or washing and it’s “threaded” into the tank and will need to be resealed (pro-seal) as it’s reassembled if you get into that. Also, the filler-neck is “clocked” during assembly to align the new fuel cap with the slipstream. Once aligned, it’s staked and sealed... why I’d not be eager to disrupt it.)GAHorn wrote:.... I’d suggest you replace the cap on that right tank with a serviceable vented cap and consider pulling the drain valve out for inspection. While it’s out...you might want to “flush” the tank to get all the water out.
Hope this helps.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
- cessna170bdriver
- Posts: 4059
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:13 pm
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
My tanks sat empty for almost 3 years during a rebuild, and had lots of rust on on the fuel gauge gears inside the tank, as well as the filler neck. You might be able check inside the tank with a mirror. I found it quite difficult to get all the rust particles out of my tanks. I flushed with water and Dawn dishwashing soap many times in an attempt to float out he rust but still got the occasional few particles on preflight for about a year afterward.
Miles
“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
Miles I thought that as well, the gauge mechanism. The aircraft has been sitting somewhere and having full tanks is a solution.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
I agree George, best leave the filler neck alone. Checking the gascolator and keeping it clean, again will solve the issue.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
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- Posts: 165
- Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:34 am
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
Thanks all.
I will replace the drain valve with a stainless steel one to prevent the rust moving forward. I'll drain and clean out the tanks, but leave the hardware alone for now.
I will replace the drain valve with a stainless steel one to prevent the rust moving forward. I'll drain and clean out the tanks, but leave the hardware alone for now.
- Reece
1956 Cessna 170b
Nanaimo, BC Canada
1956 Cessna 170b
Nanaimo, BC Canada
-
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:34 am
Re: Rusty Water in fuel tank?
Cheers! I joined the Association last night. Mike is not doing my annuals. Unfortunately, he told me he's too busy to work on my plane, so I'm still looking for a good 170 AME. I heard there's a guy in Qualicum Beach.c170b53 wrote:First off, join the association. Save yourself alot of grief and get all the good info you need. Is Mike doing your annuals? Good guy but the info here would be very helpful for him as well.
I know that plane somewhat, it was for sale in Vanderhoof a few years ago. Prior to that it might have been in Alberta and possibly sold out of Victoria probably 10-12 years ago I’m guessing but my date may be off there. I guess previously owned by someone who flew for Kiwi Air but that might have been somewhere else.
From your questions you could use some guidance and you won’t find a better place. As well, there’s a bunch of us in the lower mainland and most of us a members as well. Just across the border at S43 a bunch more plus instruction.
Not being critical here but your plane is interesting in that last time I saw it I guestimated I was looking at at least 4 planes. Doesn’t matter, just means its had a good life out there anfd should be good to you as well.
Rust issue as mentioned, likely your drain valve and filler neck and cap. Plane probably sat somewhere with minimal fuel, never a good idea. Be real careful removing it, use mouse milk or equivalent penetrating fluid to help removal. Filler neck that’s a bigger problem but likely the issue is the plane has sat for awhile with little fuel in the tank. Do you have a belly drain? Is the gascolator clean and has the fuel bowl drain been removed to clean out any debris? Should have been done on the annual but doesn’t mean it was and again you want to have that done to be on the safe side.
I’m in YPK PM if you need help anytime
Again godd luck and safe flying should the weather lift
PM me I’m in YPK if you need anything. Good luck and safe flying if the weather breaks
You're right—the plane has parts from all over. I've spoken with a few of the previous owners and learned some of its history.
I didn't see any rust on the chain, filler neck, or cap, so it must be from the drain valve. Could the fuel quantity gauge be causing it too?
I checked the lower drain below the engine and no water or rusty water is making its way through.
- Reece
1956 Cessna 170b
Nanaimo, BC Canada
1956 Cessna 170b
Nanaimo, BC Canada