Panel refurbishment - back to classic

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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henrikvs
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Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by henrikvs »

Hi all - and especially all of you who have made a panel remake in your 170. We really need some advice and help here.

We have recently acquired a pristine 1952 Cessna 170B, 180 hp. The fuselage, interior, upholstery, engine, floats and skis have been fully restored by the previous owner - pretty much everything is in excellent shape - except for the panel…

The panel is far from modern - and at the same time far from classic. It’s boring, bad and ugly, and it lacks the required stuff. It really deserves a real update to match the rest of the aircraft. There are holes everywhere, nothing to build on, so we must start from scratch.

We don’t aim for IFR, but we want to be able to fly at night. The plane will be used on wheels, floats and skis. We’ll most likely get the 275 EIS for engine monitoring. And if/when GFC 500 becomes certified, we might consider it - it would be driven by another GI 275.

We love the classic and beautiful early 170B panel (similar to that of 120/140), with the 3 piece overlays and the possibility for 8 instruments in the top overlay, the piano buttons, the plexi, a stack on the left side and a glove compartment on the right side. Stylish, clean and harmonical - a true classic! We want to take our panel back to this as much as we can - with some necessary adjustments to accomplish today’s needs. We are not planning to upgrade the yoke setup, and not planning to add any large digital square screens...

We can make new stuff, or we can use existing panels and refurbish them - depending on what makes sense and what is available. But as of now, we have nothing to go by, no templates, no measurements, no nothing…

Especially on the look for
- Piano
- Top overlay
- Side overlays
- Glove box assembly
- Stall warning horn

What is your experience in this? Which is the best route? Are there a lot of old panels out there? Can they be used, or would they just serve as templates? Should the overlays be done in aluminium, or would glass fibre (or carbon fibre) work as just as well? Does anyone have good measurements of all parts, or better yet CAD files or other 3D files? Is the piano and basic panel structure (including overlays) more or less the same between 170 and 120/140? Does it make sense to take a shortcut and just make one main backplate, and then the three overlays (and the back mounting of the four 1-¼” instruments)?

Are there any gotchas, pitfalls, or problems that we should know about?

We are interested in everything that relates to this. If you have info to share or are willing to talk - that’d be great. If you have parts to sell or to lend, let us know! All help is highly appreciated!
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GAHorn
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by GAHorn »

First of all…Henrik… CONGRATULATIONS on acquiring such a nice airplane! Could you post some pics of the current panel to help us visualize what you’re facing and attempting? Where are you located? Have you joined The Int’l Cessna 170 Assoc’n..?? or are you only visiting our Forums…?

Do you have a copy of the 170-A Illustrated Parts Catalog? This document will be imperative to facilitate your goal of returning the panel to originality.

And the 120/140 panels are very different with almost nothing in common with the 170 with the exception of individual “piano key” switch levers, and shock mounts, etc.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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henrikvs
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by henrikvs »

GAHorn wrote:First of all…Henrik… CONGRATULATIONS on acquiring such a nice airplane! Could you post some pics of the current panel to help us visualize what you’re facing and attempting? Where are you located? Have you joined The Int’l Cessna 170 Assoc’n..?? or are you only visiting our Forums…?
THANKS!

I will post pics of the current panel as soon as I figure out how to do it. New to this forum, but I am indeed a member since a few months back. Located in Stockholm, Sweden, but I will not let that stop me from seeing the world as a source of parts. Because if I were to look in Sweden only - well, ours is the ONLY Cessna 170B in Sweden...
Do you have a copy of the 170-A Illustrated Parts Catalog? This document will be imperative to facilitate your goal of returning the panel to originality.
Yes, we have it! But we need measurements - or rather old parts to replicate or refurbish
And the 120/140 panels are very different with almost nothing in common with the 170
Ouch! That's a disappointment. I was really thinking that the early 1952 170B model had very much in common with the three piece overlayed 120/140. I even have a hard time telling them apart, except for the different plexi design, and that there usually are no instruments on the sides on the top overlay. So not even the glove box is the same?
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Henrik, when you created your forum account, you indicated you where not a TIC170A member. So your forum account was never setup with TIC170A member privileges. It is now. You will see a few more areas now such at our maintenance library and you will now have the privilege of posting pictures that you didn't have before See this thread for directions: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8777

Lets see what you have.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

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c170b53
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by c170b53 »

Henrik do you have a brother Daniel ? Play hockey ?
Welcome to our association, hope we can help from time to time.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
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Richgj3
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by Richgj3 »

I second the suggestion to get the 170B IPC. I think you can find most of it online. Attached are some pictures of my 52 Panel.
Attachments
C8BCDEDC-ADB5-4092-BBA3-FE4F0DB9BAF7.jpeg
BB5AD1B2-9E24-41FC-955F-80B3BEC56C29.jpeg
Rich Giannotti CFI-A. CFI-I SE.
1952 C170B
N2444D s/n 20596
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Richgj3
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by Richgj3 »

Couple of more pictures for reference
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D04E84A5-EF67-4849-B6D6-AB3A86A4EAE0.jpeg
B8875A3F-D1D9-4034-9E2B-FABFC65DD2BC.jpeg
Rich Giannotti CFI-A. CFI-I SE.
1952 C170B
N2444D s/n 20596
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henrikvs
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by henrikvs »

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:Henrik, when you created your forum account, you indicated you where not a TIC170A member. So your forum account was never setup with TIC170A member privileges. It is now. You will see a few more areas now such at our maintenance library and you will now have the privilege of posting pictures that you didn't have before See this thread for directions: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8777

Lets see what you have.
Ah, my bad! Thanks for the fix!
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henrikvs
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by henrikvs »

This is what I have today
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IMG_6476 2.jpg
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henrikvs
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by henrikvs »

1952 170B, Serial 25167
180 hp, 0-360-A4A
Wheels, EDO 2000 straight floats, Fluidyne C3000 hydralic skis
Started out as N11111, owned by Zack Mosley (author of Smilin' Jack)
Attachments
IMG_9052.jpg
side.jpg
20220224 - 3.jpg
Last edited by henrikvs on Wed May 04, 2022 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
barrymaas
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by barrymaas »

Henrik, that's a great looking airplane.

I overhauled my '50 170a panel 2 years ago. Thankfully I had all the original pieces, but it was still a pita. The overlay's are almost impossible to re-create out of aluminum. I made a mold of mine, so I suppose you could make one from fiberglass. There's a recent thread by someone who made one out of another material. Otherwise you'll have to find one on the used market, and they don't come up very often. I believe a 140 upper panel is the same, but with a different part number.

Same for the radio and glove box panels.

I haven't figured out how to make the instrument bezels. I tried turning one out of wood, but it was pretty flimsy. I 3d printed one, but it looked crappy.

The plastic control overlay can be rebuilt. Again, there's a recent thread with the cad/cut files for a laser cutter. I made mine on a laser etcher, and I love it. All of the engine controls need to be removed to replace it, though.

The piano keys can probably be found at a salvage company.
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Richgj3
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by Richgj3 »

Your panel looks nice as is but I understand the desire for that original look. I looked up N1111 and got no joy then I realized I left off a one. Indeed N11111 was registered to Zack Mosley. Interesting registration number. Must have had some special meaning to Zack.
Rich Giannotti CFI-A. CFI-I SE.
1952 C170B
N2444D s/n 20596
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henrikvs
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by henrikvs »

c170b53 wrote:Henrik do you have a brother Daniel ? Play hockey ?
Welcome to our association, hope we can help from time to time.
I don't know Daniel. And I don't play hockey. But I do thank you for the welcome! ;)
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Henrik, you do realize that many 170 owners would love to have your modern panel. We rarely (never) see folks wanted to change back. You are truly starting from scratch in your quest aren't you.
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henrikvs
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Re: Panel refurbishment - back to classic

Post by henrikvs »

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:Henrik, you do realize that many 170 owners would love to have your modern panel. We rarely (never) see folks wanted to change back.
GREAT! I am ready to make a deal to swap my modern panel for someone's old - any day of the week! :lol:

Yeah, I have noticed this! It seems that many 170 owners prefer square instruments, empty space, glass, carbon fibre, dark matte colours and to show screw heads in the panel - and they steer away from things as chrome, glossy paint and overlays. :lol: :wink:

120/140 owners on the other hand, seem to more proud of the heritage. There are a bunch of beautifully restored panels in their forums. Maybe many see the 170 as more of a work horse, a piece of utility equipment - than as a vintage aircraft...

I would not call our panel modern though. It is the result of years of replacing, removing and adding. There is not much harmony, nor charm in it - as we see it. And when thinking about future changes to it, it gets complicated. We need to upgrade our radio to a 8.33 Mhz version and we really want to have better control of engine values and fuel - so an EIS of sorts is on the list. We don't care about navigating using big certified screens, as we do this mainly on iPad anyhow. The Garmin GI-275:s can potentially provide us with a lot of the necessary and wanted things - and at the same time allow us to keep a classic look. We can get rid of the vacuum system and all the engine gauges. This will cover VFR day, VFR night, seaplane and ski operations and basic IFR. We are also prepared for a future installation of autopilot - thinking about GFC 500 if/when it gets certified.

I understand and respect the extra work to get it back to original-ish look. At the same time, I don't see that many advantages with a panel as ours, with instrument scattered all over the place. A truly modern panel with a gigantic screen can of course be very efficient and practical - but we are not going that way with this plane anyhow.
Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:You are truly starting from scratch in your quest aren't you.
If you mean that we have no hardware to start with, correct - our panel has nothing of the original stuff on it. Blank sheet. Empty hands. Nothing. Nada. If you mean that we have no clue on what to do, well... everyone must start somewhere, right? We are collecting info as much as we can. Being based in Sweden, having the only 170 in the country, does not make things any easier. Are our goals unattainable and are our ambitions too high?

We are deeply thankful for the large US communities and to be able to participate in forums such as this from a distance. We'll do everything of this in steps and we'll be sure to keep the airplane flying as much as possible. We will not tear the panel out until we are prepared to have something to put in. That includes both panel details and new tech hardware - as Garmin have considerable backlogs at the moment. Anyhow, our project must start with investigating, understanding, getting leads, finding sellers, templates suppliers etc.

Having said all this, we might find the challenge too big - and decide to remain with the current panel, or just make a "simple" new one...
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