1948 170

[marktoula1]

Hi, I hope this is the correct place to ask some questions. I have been away from flying of a number of years and recently purchased a 1948 170 that has been sitting for 25+ years. My intention is to restore the plane into flying condition and to return to flying myself. That being said my questions are these: (1) anyone recommend a shop near the New Smyrna Beach FL area who can assist in building/rebuilding my panel. Mine is petty much toast. (2) is there a STOL kit available for a 48 170? My bird has all metal wings which appear to be in decent shape. (3) are there recommended sites where I could find items like door locks, control cables, ribs, etc.? I manufacture paint strippers so the stripping and painting isn't an issue for me, and finally is this where I might ask questions on and along as my project proceeds?
Thank you all,
Arthur Herndon

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Arthur, you are in the right place. The most important thing is you participate someplace. If you put something in a place it shouldn't be, we will move it if required and educate you so you can help us.

Question one I can't help with other than to ask. The plane hasn't flown in 25 years and the panel is the first place you are going? Or maybe you've got what must be a long list covered.

Question two. As you might figure if you haven't already, the 48 is not the highest on the list for STOL, the B model being #1 in our 170 world. There were fewer 48s made than A or B models and often often gets overlooked on the approved model list of folks getting approvals. This is really a shame sometimes understandable lots of times not. But reality is the 48 is the most different than the A and B.

Your rag wing for example, and it is still a rag wing, though yours has been metalized meaning the fabric has been replaced with sheet aluminum. It is still a rag wing in airfoil, aileron size/design and flap size/design. Every metalized rag wing is a one off. Yes, there may have been a popular process or approval to do it but there is no guarantee they are all done the same. Few will design a mod for something they can't guarantee the mod will fit or even how you would accomplish their mod on your on off wing. However all may not be lost. in the STOL department. Micro VGs approved list includes the 48. However you'll have to see if that includes a metalized wing which it may not.

Question 3. Besides salvage yards Univair is about the only place making new parts or has inventory of NOS parts. Door locks found on 170s are actually hardware store items as those Cessna used and owners installed on their own came from furniture suppliers. McFarlane makes control cables and a plethora of other things you might need. Of course check our Aircraft Spruce as well. Beware that many of the things Aircraft Spruce sells are made and sold by Univair and McFarlane. As far as supplies or parts when you get more specific, just ask. Likely someone has bought them lately and will have some advice for you.

So you are now our paint stripper expert. I just want to caution you. This is an airplane. It is made of different alloys of metal or processes you just might not want to strip. Lots of folks have come before you. Some have made bad mistakes. Ask and learn from them what has worked and what you don't want to do. For example, the landing gear has a shot peened surface. You may not want to chemically strip them causing hydrogen embrittlement and you sure don't want to grind the surface removing the shot peening rendering your gear legs unairworthy.

If some of my comments toward the 48 sound discouraging, I don't mean to be. The 48 is a great airplane. Most everyone who buys one first would never trade it and those that get a B model are to scared to take a chance on such a great airplane and find out their B wasn't so special. As far as STOL with a 48 goes, most folks will tell you the most important thing is pilot skill, not hardware. A guy who learns to really fly his 48 can operate it in most any place most B model pilots will go.

Have fun with your project

[GAHorn]

WELCOME ARTHUR!

As has already been said te ‘48 model is a very nice airplane with sweet flying and handling.

The metallized version will be a bit heavier than the fabric wing but if that’s what you have…you will be unlikely to notice any deficiency over that.

The wing was developed from the 140 with extended span, and an added 12.5 gal fuel tank in the right wing. Some owners have added yet another to the left wing for additional range. It has a slightly slower roll-rate than later models only due to the shorter 140-span ailerons…. otherwise has no short-comings worth discussing….and lots of advantages over its’ contemporaries. (Has none of the slow roll-rate/rudder-imbalance such as Stinsons I’ve flown.)

As for STOL kits etc…. Before you jump into spending money seeking shorter landing distances or lower stall speeds…. Allow me to point out that ALL models 170 that have original Continental C145/O300 engines… will get into short strips you can never get them back out of…. so think about what you really want to accomplish before you start throwing money at such mods…which will also not be likely to add to re-sale value.

Carefully inspect the steel struts and attach hardware for corrosion and take a close look at the rudder cables where they pass thru the aft bulkhead.

What equipment does it have… Total Time… SMOH…etc. ??

Again..WELCOME! You’re at the right place!

[brianm]

As a fellow metallized ragwing owner, welcome! In my opinion (which isn't worth a whole lot), the best "STOL kit" for the '48 is a climb prop and weight reduction. As George said, good technique and lots of practice will get you easily landing shorter than you can take off again.

[Joe Moilanen]

Hi, I hope this is the correct place to ask some questions. I have been away from flying of a number of years and recently purchased a 1948 170 that has been sitting for 25+ years. My intention is to restore the plane into flying condition and to return to flying myself. That being said my questions are these: (1) anyone recommend a shop near the New Smyrna Beach FL area who can assist in building/rebuilding my panel. Mine is petty much toast. (2) is there a STOL kit available for a 48 170? My bird has all metal wings which appear to be in decent shape. (3) are there recommended sites where I could find items like door locks, control cables, ribs, etc.? I manufacture paint strippers so the stripping and painting isn't an issue for me, and finally is this where I might ask questions on and along as my project proceeds?
Thank you all,
Arthur Herndon

Welcome to the group Arthur!
Even without a STOL kit a 170 will perform very well when extremely light. Weight makes all the difference in the world with a 170. I have a 8043 prop on mine and it is the best short field mod that you can do for the stock 145 hp. engine if you plan on doing short field stuff. Here's a video of me taking off from my 650' strip with obstructions. Granted, I have the advantage of the B model with Fowler flaps but yours will amaze you with 1/4 fuel or less and by yourself. This video is before I installed a Sportsman STOL kit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V_jebUFMzQ

[Joe Moilanen]

Hi, I hope this is the correct place to ask some questions. I have been away from flying of a number of years and recently purchased a 1948 170 that has been sitting for 25+ years. My intention is to restore the plane into flying condition and to return to flying myself. That being said my questions are these: (1) anyone recommend a shop near the New Smyrna Beach FL area who can assist in building/rebuilding my panel. Mine is petty much toast. (2) is there a STOL kit available for a 48 170? My bird has all metal wings which appear to be in decent shape. (3) are there recommended sites where I could find items like door locks, control cables, ribs, etc.? I manufacture paint strippers so the stripping and painting isn't an issue for me, and finally is this where I might ask questions on and along as my project proceeds?
Thank you all,
Arthur Herndon

Welcome to the group Arthur!
Even without a STOL kit a 170 will perform very well when extremely light. Weight makes all the difference in the world with a 170. I have a 8043 prop on mine and it is the best short field mod that you can do for the stock 145 hp. engine if you plan on doing short field stuff. Here's a video of me taking off from my 650' strip with obstructions. Granted, I have the advantage of the B model with Fowler flaps but yours will amaze you with 1/4 fuel or less and by yourself. This video is before I installed a Sportsman STOL kit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V_jebUFMzQ

Here is a video of the landing, I only used about 350' but could have used less if I were more aggressive with the brakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ah8SNS ... e=youtu.be

[marktoula1]

Wow on the answers! Thanks so much to everyone. Basically my plane is in pretty decent shape, Cables were shot, windows brittle, and interior cloth is junk as well. I disassembled the plane in North Carolina and drove it home to FL on a modified pontoon boat trailer. As far as my experience I owned an aircraft paint shop in Ga for a few years and had my A & P until my ambitions allowed me to drift away to the Automotive Manufacturing area and stripping of jigs and fixtures. Lots of experience in all metals, fiberglass, composites, and many plastics. If anyone needs help simply ask I'll share all I know. Hearing all I know will be 17 seconds of agony for those who listen. (relative to there hydrogen embrittlement question my surface strippers won't do that, happens mostly with tank type stripping and mine in that area are good go. ( and please know this isn't a commercial for my work but even with my South Ga Public education I do know paint stripping, Proof I should have listened more in school. As far as why I went to the panel at first is it is actually an original 48 panel radios and all. Engine has 951 hours and the airframe is about 2200. It does have Cleveland wheel and brakes.
I was incorrect in asking about locks because my left side door handle is toast, Airframe is straight with no damage other than to one flap which made contact with a steel pipe on the trailing edge.
My grand plan was to strip the fuselage, remove the top panel over the cockpit to check the spar channels, clean and prime as well as go through the rest of the fuselage doing the same. as far as the wings I haven't thought that far and am not sure how far to go to insure they are sound. Compressions is good on the engine but Im sure I need a lot of maintenance there. My investment right now is really low, so I have room to do the work needed.
I am open to ideas and suggestions on how to proceed, I appreciate the info on the STOL in that I am wondering what are the major differences between a 48 170 and the A & B models?

Thanks,
Arthur Herndon

[GAHorn]

……..I am wondering what are the major differences between a 48 170 and the A & B models?

Thanks,
Arthur Herndon

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=228

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I am wondering what are the major differences between a 48 170 and the A & B models?

Thanks,
Arthur Herndon

The difference is that the model you own is better than the other 2. I can only think of 1 or 2 guys here who would argue that with me.

[DaveF]

If that airplane has an original panel, post pictures! It’s hard to find examples of original panels, interiors, etc. I’m sure there’d be a few people here who who’d appreciate the help with their restoration projects.

[n2582d]

Arthur,

I’d second what Dave writes. Please document here whatever might be original— fabric, carpet, paint, panel, etc. In case you haven’t had a chance to see it, here’s some great documentation that Bruce did of a ‘48 several years ago.

[marktoula1]

here are some panel pics, understand a lot of interior was removed to get the plane apart for transport. IT sat outside for 25 years. /Users/amandanoe/Pictures/Photos Library.photoslibrary/resources/derivatives/8/8F27A428-D857-4F22-B7AB-5F67D4907133_1_105_c.jpeg
/Users/amandanoe/Pictures/Photos Library.photoslibrary/resources/derivatives/D/D923E7D1-1731-42F4-83FD-A5FE5A352232_1_105_c.jpeg
/Users/amandanoe/Pictures/Photos Library.photoslibrary/resources/derivatives/5/5E5C20AA-83D7-4F72-A621-91ACA10FAA8C_1_105_c.jpeg
/Users/amandanoe/Pictures/Photos Library.photoslibrary/resources/derivatives/8/8C5C0755-4A0C-4790-B407-D206C938F8A6_1_105_c.jpeg
/Users/amandanoe/Pictures/Photos Library.photoslibrary/resources/derivatives/2/22FF304B-56FF-471C-9A80-4DB7845D5B7D_1_105_c.jpeg

[marktoula1]

not sure I posted the pictures correctly. may need some instruction.

[n2582d]

AD0D1523-952A-4456-9265-6143094EE445.jpeg (46.52 KiB) Viewed 1034 times

5E5C20AA-83D7-4F72-A621-91ACA10FAA8C.jpeg (45.9 KiB) Viewed 1034 times

8C5C0755-4A0C-4790-B407-D206C938F8A6.jpeg (36.12 KiB) Viewed 1034 times

8F27A428-D857-4F22-B7AB-5F67D4907133.jpeg (37.2 KiB) Viewed 1034 times

[marktoula1]

Gang,

Ive read the information you suggested relative to the differences between the 170 models. Am I correct that a 48' 170 would have 3 fuel cells? I ask because my metalized wings have 2 fuel tanks so would that have been a modification made when the wings were covered with metal? Getting to chat with everyone is extremely helpful so I am open to suggestions, ideas, and opinions.

Arthur