IOWA'S 170

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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Ryan Smith
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by Ryan Smith »

Strobes are incredibly disruptive to your vision during ground ops. They’re designed for use seeing airplanes miles away in flight, not one you’re close proximity to. Leaving them on all the time is poor airmanship.

It’s standard practice to turn the beacon on any time engines are running, and strobes on crossing the hold short line of a runway for departure, and off when crossing it back inbound after clearing the runway in the 121 world. Maybe I’m too critical, but my eyes are sensitive to light, and dark vision takes a while to acquire and less than a second to destroy.

In short, taxiing around with strobes on is the same as driving around with your high beams on. It’s just a courtesy thing.
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GAHorn
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by GAHorn »

Anti-collision lighting takes several forms. Some aircraft have rotating beacons made of incandescent lamps which either flash or rotate.

But the modern version of “anti collision” lighitng.... might be incandescent...or it might be strobes...or it might be flashing LEDs.

SOME aircraft have NO OTH#ER anti-collision lighting than “stobes”r ... AS APPROVED by FARs.

Leaving your “anti-collision” lighting operational ALL THE TIME is a NORMAL operation. (Yes, strobes can produce adverse issues in some atmospheric conditions such as fog, nearby aircraft, etc..... but nonetheless, when anticollision lighting is required... it is REQUIRED.)

In the “Historical sense” it was considered good operating procedures (and above 12.5K lbs it was REQUIRED) that the “beacon” (anti-collision lights) be activated BEFORE engine start... as a warning to all on the ramp that propellers are about to turn.

In modern times. The “STROBES” which might suffice for the anti-collision lighting serves the same purpose. Strobes ARE approved as sole anticollision lighting.)

Obviously, it is a subjective matter whether or not to operate “strobes” on a ramp where others might be “inconvenienced” by their operation.

However, I believe “safety” is a higher priority than “convenience” and that anti-collision lighting ...of whatever flavor/version one might have aboard... is a useful and SAFE method of operational notice to others nearby on the ramp that an aircraft is “alive”.

If your MASTER switch is ON... then your anticollision lighting should also be ON. And I don’t care what type you have.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Ryan Smith
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by Ryan Smith »

Blinding others isn’t exactly safe, George.
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dstates
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by dstates »

I am guessing that most of the 170 flying that happens is in the daylight and I believe Ryan is most concerned about losing his night vision due to another plane leaving their strobes on while taxiing at night. I was also taught to leave strobes on when taxiing except at night. Maybe a compromise here is to leave your strobes on during the day and you won't walk away from your 170 with the Master on and leave your position lights (red and green) on when it is dark and I bet you won't leave your master on then either.

Doug
N1235D - 1951 170A - SN: 20118
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GAHorn
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by GAHorn »

I’ll preface this post by reminding that earlier I said that this is s “subjective” matter.

Certainly it is rude to flash strobes in close proximity to other aircraft. Most strobe systems placards caution about operating them in clouds, on the ground, and near other aircraft. This is not because they are bright... it is because some strobe sequence/flash can cause disorientation.

I’ll ask this question: When you are standing around on the ramp... or when you are in your cockpit... Just how close to other aircraft are you?

If you are closer than what is comfortable with other aircraft’s anti-collision lighting operating.... then you are likely too close. Separation on the ground is just as important as it is in the air. Think about this .... instead of imagining yourself standing 20 feet from another aircraft.... What distance SHOULD you maintain from an operational aircraft.... and if YOU ARE the operational aircraft....HOW close should you be operating to others... whether it’s your lighting OR your propeller or airframe?

Again, it’s subjective. And if your only anti-collision lighting is strobes, and if your aircraft is being operated it may even be REGULATION as well as safe-operating practice to operate them when engines are operating.

Ryan, I suspect you are imagining that you are sitting directly behind another aircraft in-line for takeoff. That is not what I am imagining.
Certainly that is not the place to be operating strobes while lined-up in-wait at the threshold. (Although it is also not good practice to “crowd-up” in line. But when I’m operating in close proximity to other aircraft.... I am not walking away from my parked airplane either. And that is the scenario in which I’m suggesting your anti-collision lighting can be useful to prevent leaving a Master Sw on. (Not likely a time to worry about night vision.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
iowa
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by iowa »

ha
'uncle'
strobes and anti-collision lighting take top priority
over my original question
i'm at the point where i never fly at night
even tho my eyes are fine

is it possible to fully charge a battery
that has been de-charged for a couple of weeks?

thanks
iowa
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1951 170A 1468D SN 20051
1942 L-4B 2764C USAAC 43-572 (9433)
AME #17747
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Ryan Smith
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by Ryan Smith »

George and I appear to be mostly on the same page. Regarding the battery, it depends on the health and age of the battery. If it’s the only time it’s happened, chances are fairly good.

Fellow member Kennet DeJesus was in town a few months back and we did some flying in 56D as he’d never flown a
170 other than his own and was curious how the Sportsman kit and lady legs compared to a stock wing and old gear. Kennet has a ‘53, and as such is not used to the piano keys, and we were in a rush when got back and I left the master switch on.

Came out a week or so later to fly to find a completely flat battery. It’s a Concorde that’s about a year old, and it recharged fine. I do leave the beacon switch on now just as a precaution. Planning on Orion 650s at some point and will do a little re-wiring where the beacon is on a circuit breaker toggle switch elsewhere, and put the strobes on the main piano key panel.

In the 121 world, our navs never turn off. I’ve adopted similar habits for lights when flying bugsmashers, but I’m of the opinion that the more lights, the better, even in the daytime. My dad recently became the owner for the second time of his old straight 35 Bonanza that he owned from 1989-1993 and he’s been getting rusty pilot training from me. The Bonanza has HID landing lights and draw very little current. He asked me why I fly around when them on in the daytime, and I replied “I like to be seen”.
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DaveF
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by DaveF »

iowa wrote:
is it possible to fully charge a battery
that has been de-charged for a couple of weeks?

thanks
iowa
Give it a try. I recovered a car battery that was down to 3V by putting it on a charger on 2A for about a day. Then I drove the car but a few days later it was at 10V, so I put the charger on 10A for about 8 hours. The charger voltage was up to about 15.5V but didn't boil the battery. It worked! Battery has been good for a year and a half, even though I only drive the car every couple of weeks.

Make sure the cells are topped off before charging. Start the charging slow. Don't just jam 25A for an hour into it.

If the battery froze while it was discharged, it's dead. I've done that, too.
hilltop170
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by hilltop170 »

Odyssey sells battery chargers/maintainers in many versions depending on your application. They claim an abused battery will sulfate the plates and reduce its life. They also claim their maintainer will de-sulfate the battery over time and extend the life.

I left the master switch on with a several-year-old Concorde AGM battery years ago to the point it wouldn’t even energize the alternator after hand propping. After restarting with a jump and flying for an hour, the battery was back up to 11.5v just from the alternator.

I connected a 20A Odyssey automatic charger/maintainer after landing and left it on for about a week. I had no control over charge rate. The battery came back to 12.5v and lasted another 4 or 5 years.

I don’t know enough about battery engineering to make any claims but I have had very long life on AGM batteries when I use a maintainer during periods of storage. I believe in quality automatic charger/maintainers.
20A Odyssey automatic battery charger/maintainer for AGM and flooded cell batteries
20A Odyssey automatic battery charger/maintainer for AGM and flooded cell batteries
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
iowa
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by iowa »

On the new Gil battery log info sheet
there is a sticker with the battery s/n on it
where does this go?
in logbook or with paperwork?
thanks
iowa
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1951 170A 1468D SN 20051
1942 L-4B 2764C USAAC 43-572 (9433)
AME #17747
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

It could go in your log but it's not necessary. Keep it with your paperwork in case the battery is defective and you need/want warranty on it.
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iowa
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by iowa »

thanks bruce
i'll just put it in with the paperwork
after reading the 'Battery Log' sheet
it states to 'affix the barcode label here'
under exhibit A if one needs to use their warranty
i need to read the info more carefully
thanks again
dave
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1951 170A 1468D SN 20051
1942 L-4B 2764C USAAC 43-572 (9433)
AME #17747
iowa
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by iowa »

I still have my magnetic compass attached to my windshield center strip
it is Cessna part no. C660501-0201
in the corners, there are machined holes for mounting
what size are these screws and where would I get them?
thanks
iowa
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1951 170A 1468D SN 20051
1942 L-4B 2764C USAAC 43-572 (9433)
AME #17747
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Don't have a clue what size but you want the material of the screws to be brass which can not be magnetized.
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iowa
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Re: IOWA'S 170

Post by iowa »

now Bruce
you love little details like this
dave
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1951 170A 1468D SN 20051
1942 L-4B 2764C USAAC 43-572 (9433)
AME #17747
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