Buying a new clock

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:29 pm

I know he flies IFR, that's why I referred to the kneeboard.

If the feds say the second hand has to be "installed" in the airplane, that getting a bit picky. Maybe we ought to attach the pencil used to copy clearances to the airplane too.

As best as I remember, the Warrior I got my instrument rating in had a stopwatch double-sticky taped to the panel. The instructor/DE/AP/IA owned the airplane.

Miles

russfarris · Post by **russfarris** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:14 am

Hey guys, I've been out flying so I can have Christmas (and my also my birthday, alas December 25) off, so I now I can respond to the many suggestions out there. This has been a fun thread!

Mike B. - Thanks for the clock links. Yes, this one is certainly FMA approved, but I'm trying to spend a little less money. Of course I remember your expert duct tape repairs on the infamous Dutch oven known as the Fokker F-28. Are you using the FAA approved Duct tape on the Airbus now? (Just to let everyone in on the joke, Mike is one of the unsung line mechanics that keeps US Airways jets on schedule. He has
a 170A, and his IA as well.)

Dick - I'm not sure where you got the idea I was going to install a 1,200 dollar clock, but like you, the idea gives me heart palpitations. For that matter, anything over about 150 ain't in the cards.

George is quite right. I'm looking for a legal clock for IFR. I'm not going to quote the FAR chapter and verse, but it does state that for IFR you need a clock with a second sweep hand, or an acceptable digital one.

As long as you have a legal clock installed and working in your airplane, you can use a K-Mart digital clock duct-taped to the panel, your wristwatch or an hourglass

to actually time your approach or whatever. IMHO.

As crazy as it sounds, I have never used a kneeboard for IFR work. I write clearances down on a little notebook I keep in the airplane. Enroute charts come from US Airways (believe me, they can spare them) and I use those funky NOAA/DOD approach plates in book form. I only fly IFR under certain conditions...daytime, no icing or convective weather. In the six years I've owned 43A, I've only shot two timed approaches. So, practically speaking I haven't found a need for a chronometer with all the bells and whistles. But I can appreciate that people find them useful.

I've located in my area another watch repair guy that restores/repairs these things. I'll run my clock over to him after the holidays and see what he says. If he can fix it for 100 dollars or so, I'll go that route. Otherwise, I'll install one of the cheaper analog quartz types. The AC Spruce non-approved model is the front runner, if my IA buys it.

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys...Russ Farris

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:31 am

All you young guys are far too fussy about clocks. Heck, back in the old days of four legged low frequency radio ranges we had a two minute, sand filled, "Hour Glass" type egg timer on the glare shield to time our holding pattern legs.

russfarris · Post by **russfarris** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:02 am

Dick, thanks for including me in the young guys group, since I turn 52
in three days!

One of the great things about this web site is the vast range of experience
and time periods spanned. I would venture that you and Rudy Mantel have the longest flying careers here; at least 60 years as near as I can figure. Then there's the mid-timers like George Horn and myself, who learned to fly in the late 1960s/early 1970s. And of course the pilots who discovered the joy of flight more recently.

As a scribe of aviation history, I greatly value the personal experiences
of those who flew long before I did. Dick's "hour-glass" timer is one example missing from conventional histories. Another: In all my research, I have met only one pilot who actually used the infamous Lear
Omniscope, a CRT type display of VOR signals from the early 1950s.

I probably should start another thread on this. Remember the parachute flares required for Part 135 night ops in the 1950s? Russ Farris

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:27 pm

Yeah, But alzheimers can strike at any age... I only barely recall the Bendix "Zero Reader". And Russ, you and I are probably the last pilot-class that got sequence reports off a teletype.

russfarris · Post by **russfarris** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:35 pm

Or the last pilot class to take a written at a FSS. At least, that was the arrangement in my hometown of Ft. Myers, Fla. That FSS is long gone.

Or the last pilot class that can work the wind-side of an E-6B?

Maybe we should start a new thread along these lines - for example, it won't be long before the NDB approach belongs to the ages
(thank God.) Today, there's a group that will be the last airman trained on ADF, if that hasn't already passed. Russ Farris

P.S. George, I hope you're kidding about the Zero Reader! I've never seen one (for the uninitiated, it's an early form of flight director), it's like something found on a DC-6 or Convair - I didn't know you were that old

I'll bet Dick's flown one, though...

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:11 pm

In 1970 ,as a private pilot, I had the chance to right seat in a DC-6B to ferry the airplane. My takeoff briefing was "Don't touch anything."

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:46 am

Russ,

Any airline pilot too cheap to install an eleven hundred dollar clock in his C-170 should be limited to day VFR on sunny days only!

Happy Birthday! Holy-Moly---- 52 ----! Same age as my daughter, the FedEx Pilot. However, she will have a birthday in April and will be ahead of you again.

I got my Commercial ten and a half years before you were born.

Oh yes. I did use to fly "Dizzy Sixes" --- Threes and fours too. And I do have a lot of hours in a Convair 240, one of the nicest airplanes I ever flew.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:34 pm

Hey Guys - here's a clock story for ya.

My Uncle, Joe Shrampko was a crew chief on the USS San Jacinto, CVL-30 from early 1943 to the end of 1945, attached to VF-51. They flew Hellcats. During that period he went though 5 planes.

One one particular day in 1944 he was on the wing, talking with his pilot who had just returned from a mission and another Hellcat landed behind them. The boot ENS flying that plane landed so hard that his guns fired when he hit the deck. Uncle Joe pushed his pilot back down behind the armor plate and prayed.

When the short burst was over, his plane was full of holes but not on fire.
He had one hole clear through his trousers, and the plane was trashed. Now mind you the width of the flight deck on escort carriers was pretty narrow so with a few other planes already on deck - and still turning, he had no place to run to.

The plane was being positioned as this occured so it was on a slight angle to the approaching plane. Some of the rounds hit the panel. He looked in and saw the pilot was OK and so was he. They both figured it wasn't thier time yet ... and the clock in the panel was still running.

He removed the clock and placed it in each of the (then 3) remaning Hellcats he had during the rest of his tour. (Uncle Joe's lucky clock). That particular plane was pushed over the side.

He gave me the clock when I was 14 .... the Christmas after he told me the story. The clock was originaly manufactured by the Waltham Watch Company of Waltham MA. Still has the Navy anchor and contract number on the back. Some day, I'll put that in my plane ........

When I was a kid, my brother and I would alternate going for rides with my uncle up a Ski lift in VT just so we could hear another story. They were good times, sorry that he is gone because I would love to sit with him now over a coffee ... poor guy I'd never let him get to sleep ....

Anyway, that's my clock story.

PS, the USS San Jacinto is the CVL that GWB flew from when he was shot down bombing Chicha Jimi (not sure how to spell that). My Uncle didn't know him, he said lots of guys came through, some you knew - some you didn't.

Kyle T.

Post by **GAHorn** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:45 pm

Kyle wrote: PS, the USS San Jacinto is the CVL that GWB flew from when he was shot down bombing Chicha Jimi (not sure how to spell that).
Kyle T.

You mean GHWB. GWB supposedly got as far as Alabama.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:42 pm

Yup, thats him ... thanks for catching that George.

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:54 pm

Kyle wrote: PS, the USS San Jacinto is the CVL that GWB flew from when he was shot down bombing Chicha Jimi (not sure how to spell that). My Uncle didn't know him, he said lots of guys came through, some you knew - some you didn't.

Kyle T.

Chichi Jima.

Speaking of uncles, Mine was a was part of a quad 40mm (Bofours) anti-aircraft crew on the USS Mobile (CL-63) from 1942 until the end of the war. He was at Chichi Jima and probably every other campaign in the Pacific Theater.

Great story Kyle. Even better that you still have the clock. As has been discussed here, they are basically overgrown pocket watches. I had one fixed by a very good local watchmaker. Turned out he used to repair them when he was in the Navy (stationed on a carrier) during WWII & Korea.

Bill Hart · Post by **Bill Hart** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:04 pm

gahorn wrote:Yeah, But alzheimers can strike at any age... I only barely recall the Bendix "Zero Reader". And Russ, you and I are probably the last pilot-class that got sequence reports off a teletype.

George,

I have a co-worker who has a â€œzero readerâ€ sitting on his desk.

jrenwick · Post by **jrenwick** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:51 pm

Here's one for sale: http://www.bpbsurplus.com/lc/cart.php?t ... ory_id=317

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:46 am

When you have an airplane like mine, "The Silver Pig", that flys kind of half sideways, you don't really need a panel clock.

I find that calendar, if not too bulky, works just fine.