Do you have later model seats installed?

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher

Do you have Pilot/Co-pilot seats from another aircraft installed?

Yes.
7
13%
Seats from Pre-1965 Cessna.
23
43%
Seats from 1965-1975 Cessna.
11
20%
Seats from 1975-1985 Cessna.
2
4%
Seats from 1985 or Later Cessna.
1
2%
Seats of unknown origin.
10
19%
 
Total votes: 54

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GAHorn
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Do you have later model seats installed?

Post by GAHorn »

I am compiling an answer for the FAA regarding replacement seats.
If you have replaced your seats with those from another model cessna, please comment here. The report I make regarding this info will be only total numbers and seats involved,....no owner or aircraft identification will be made.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Paul-WI
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Post by Paul-WI »

How about an option for "no"? I have the original seats in mine.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

No would be understood. He's not trying to count how many people still have stock seats.

You might have missed it but in another thread about a later model seat AD the FAA has said as far as they are concerned NO ONE has later seats in their 170.

http://www.cessna170.org/phpBB2/viewtop ... highlight= is the thread.
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Tom Downey
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Post by Tom Downey »

I believe the 170 Association would be well advised to leave well enough alone.

and try to get the new AD changed to a appliance AD by nomenclature/part number

placing the AD against the seat not the aircraft.

OBTW the AD is on the 172/182 R&S that is the new style seat, your poll should ask how many have the new style seat installed.
Tom Downey A&P-IA
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GAHorn
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Post by GAHorn »

Tom Downey wrote:I believe the 170 Association would be well advised to leave well enough alone.

and try to get the new AD changed to a appliance AD by nomenclature/part number

placing the AD against the seat not the aircraft.

OBTW the AD is on the 172/182 R&S that is the new style seat, your poll should ask how many have the new style seat installed.
That's exactly the intent, Tom. In the other thread, the FAA has placed the AD against the airplane model...rather than the seat model. We agree that it is the seat which should have the AD placed against it....including the aircraft for which the seat was originally installed. (And the poll does address the "new" style seat....in asking for the year model which supplied the seat which might be installed (if known.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
4stripes
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Post by 4stripes »

I could have checked yes to pre-1965 because mine are original... (but I don't think that is the intent)

There should be a line for people who have stock seating, or the results don't mean much.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

It is one of those thing that one lives and learns from. George didn't want to count original seats so no option was given. I would have done the same thing.

Problem is that we stock seat guys can't make a choice which would then turn the poll into results for us and we would not longer have the poll glaring at us, daring us to make some kind of choice.

Unfortunitly the software does not allow for a change once a poll is started so we are stuck with this one. :x
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GAHorn
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Post by GAHorn »

We don't need to sample a percentage of the fleet. Stock seats are not a modification, so we don't need to count them. We just need to prove to the FAA that the airframes don't need an AD note....it's the SEAT that needs one. (In other words, we KNOW some airplanes have later seats installed. I told the FAA so. They said THEY didn't know that! Apparently me telling them so doesn't make it so to them....but if I can give them a particular number of airplanes with such mods, then they'll address the seat in the AD rather than airframes. This way we can avoid seeing an AD note placed against our 170's...the AD would only apply to the seats of later airplanes. They aren't interested in unmodified airplanes.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Gary
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Post by Gary »

When I bought my 170 3.5 years ago, it had non-original seats installed. In 1982 an A&P installed used, serviceable seats Part # 0515001-20 (pilots) and Part # 0500210-130 (co-pilots). My wrench guy found the paper work lacking on the installation and did some research. He submitted a 337 and wrote "inspected installation and found to be safe and acceptable, seat belt attach points remain the same. Basic for approval per attached field approved 337 dated March 9, 1998 and attached copy of Cessna 100 series maintenance manual page 3-15 Paragraph 3-22." That line states "Basis for this installation is found in Cessna 100 series service manual..... which states in part, "vertically adjustable individual seats operated manually or by electrical power, may be installed in all airplanes except the model 150." I do have a problem with the co-pilots seat back not staying in the full upright position. I would like to find out how to fabricate a steel locking bar/rod for this seat. The pilots seat does not have this problem as it has a worm gear for height and tilt. Does anyone know how to fabricate an acceptable locking bar to satisfy the AD? The AD note should be against the seats and not the airframe. Gary
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GAHorn
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Post by GAHorn »

Gary, any method you devise to correct any deficiency addressed by the AD other than the method specified in the AD, will require specific alternative approval. You should contact your local FSDO MX inspector.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Gary
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Post by Gary »

George, if I read the AD correctly, it states "The NPRm proposed to require you to install a modification kit on both crew seat back cylinder lock assemblies, which replaces the cylinder lock with a new model cylinder lock, OR install a steel lock rod/bar on both crew seat back cylinder lock assemblies." Bold added by me. The kit costs $870 for 2 seats. The estimate for fabrication and installation of a steel lock rod/bar is $240 for two seats. I only need to do one seat as the other does not have the problem. Again, a serial number of the seats involved and not the aircraft type would be a much better AD. There was a phone number with the AD and I called to get information. My call has not been returned. I don't know what "Fabricate and install a steel lock rod/bar" means. Is it up to my A&E to make something he sees fit? Thanks, Gary
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GAHorn
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Post by GAHorn »

Doubtless Cessna has a Service Bulletin to address the AD and which would describe how to mfr the lock rod. If the AD requres both seats to have it... it would seem that just because one of your seats has not yet failed .... does not exclude it from an AD. (Perhaps Cessna could give you some guidance on this.)
Keep up posted.

I agree with you regarding the AD should be applicable to SEATS...not the airframe. This is why I posted this Poll to begin with...in order to have some data to take to the FAA who seem to think no 170's have anything other than 170 seats.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Gary
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Post by Gary »

The pilots seat is does not have the vertical position problem as it is a different part number and has a threaded rod with a crank handle to adjust the vertical position and another crank for the height adjustment. It doesn't have the same latch and ratchet system as does the co-pilots seat that fails. I will look for a Cessna service bulletin. Thanks
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Dward
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Post by Dward »

George, I was tempted to select unknown on the poll but thought you might know the model of my seats. They are square across the top of the seat back. The only adjustment, other that sliding fore and aft, is the position of the seat back which have 5 or 6 detents for tilt adjustment. I suppose it is also possible that the backs have been modified.
Dave W

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flyguy
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OLD THREAD??

Post by flyguy »

SEEMS LIKE I REMEMBER A THREAD WAY BACK WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT THE UN-EXPECTED RECLINING FEATURE OF SOME LATER MODEL SEAT-BACKS! JUST IN CASE SOMEONE HAS TO REPLACE SQUARE-TOP SEATS I WON'T THROW AWAY THIS PAIR OF "VINTAGE" SEATS THAT ARE SOUND BUT NEED RECOVERING :roll:
OLE GAR SEZ - 4 Boats, 4 Planes, 4 houses. I've got to quit collecting!
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