Installing Rudder return spring

[hilltop170]

To further illustrate my question carefully look at the illustrations and the direction of the hook as well as the spring. All the illustrations would be the left side of the tunnel just to the right of the pilots seat as viewed from the top. The spring I'm illustration would actually be for the right pedal however.

Tell us by illustration letter which why you installed the springs or which way your springs are installed if you didn't install them.

The attachment returnsprint.jpg is no longer available

I've always found it easier to hook springs by bending and pulling them toward the less restrictive work access area to set the hook such as in illustrations A and C. The hook closest to the coil should be hooked first into the more restrictive position.

170 rudder pedal spring.jpg (27.76 KiB) Viewed 14622 times

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I installed my new rudder return springs today. It was not that hard but is just a bit tedious. And of course I'd already spend hours looking at this and finding the extended handle duckbill pliers I already showed a picture of.

Here is what I did. Remove the seats and get them out of the way. Remove the rudder pedal base floor covers from both sides. Pull up the carpet on both sides of the tunnel sufficiently to uncover the lighting holes in each side. Using a small light in the opposite side your working on will make things easier.

If this is the first time your looking in the tunnel acquaint yourself with the parts and how the springs attach. I did not remove my rudder cables from the rudder which might make this easier but I found just moving the rudder to each stop as needed for the side your working on cave sufficient play in the system. You will probably also need to remove the inspection cover just aft of the fire wall in the center of the belly. You won't actually work through there but it makes it easier to retrieve dropped parts which you will drip.

Here is a drawing of how I installed my springs. You will not that the left and right springs are not attached to the attach points in the same direction from the right and left.

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At this point working on the pilots side on the right rudder pedal which is actually the spring on the left side of the tunnel, using the long duckbills I reached the spring up and hooked it to the front. Next I took about a 2 foot length of 41 thousand safety wire looped over once and threaded that loop into the tunnel behind wear the spring attaches to the rear point. I hooked the free end of the spring with this loop and pulled the spring back and into position using a regular needle nose pliers to snap the hook into the hole. Then release the loop of safety wire and pull it out form around the spring hook and your done one side. Took me about 10 minutes once I was set.

Now the copilot side and the left pedal with the spring that is on the right of the tunnel. This spring will be the one with the shortest hook. Do the same on this side to hook the front as you din on the left side. But on this side you need to feed you loop of safety wire from behind the rear attach point and to the left of the lever it attaches to and then up front to hook the spring. Pulling back on the spring hook to get it in position and this time just using your fingers through the side holes to manipulate the hook into it's hole. Release the loop of safety wire and pull it out and the hard part is over. Another 15 minutes for me and no cuss words to this point.

Flip the carpet back into place and reinstall the pedal floor plates. It is OK to cuss when you drop a few screws into the belly trying to reinstall these panels. Then remember to reinstall the inspection cover on the belly and reconnect the rudder cables if you disconnected them and your done.

While I probably won't remove my new springs to demonstrate how to install them I would be more than happy to open up my plane and give a quick demo at this years convention if George runs short of material.

[170C]

Awe, come on Bruce, we want a full demonstration of how you preformed this operation Since only so many of us can see in your plane at one time you will probably need to do it multiple times, but think of how easy each suceeding one will get with that learning curve working Seriously, thanks for sharing your procedure with us. Looking forward to seeing you in Michigan.

[GAHorn]

...Looking forward to seeing you in Michigan.

You'll likely only see much of his backside.....If he does as you suggest and as he volunteered....

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

More experience with the return springs.

After installing my new springs one of them fell off while in operation. Here is what I found and some more insight along with another tool to make putting these things on easier.

First I must say that while I haven't checked my rudder stops with a protractor I have no reason to believe the stops are not adjusted properly. What happened it seems is that the spring in the right side of the tunnel I installed with the hook opening to the outside of the tunnel. This is a bit difficult to do and I opened the hook just a bit to make the angel better in order to get the hook attached.

These springs in the picture are not the actual return springs but others I'm using for the example that are very close. Notice the end on the spring to the right is open just a bit more. What happens on my airplane is when you push full rudder the official Cessna springs actually hang limp. In fact they get pushed forward. It didn't take to many pushes on the rudder to unhook the one spring from the front.

The cure I hope is to reform the hook back closer to a closed hook and then bend the spring to open the hook opening wide enough to snap it into place. With the hook farther closed it will not be able to be unhooked when it is simply pushed forward with full peddle deflection.

Here is the spring on the tool I made which is nothing more than an old rusted 1/4" bar I had laying around with the end bent to shape the spring.

The bar is actually about 2 feet long giving me a long enough handle to reach the spring up into the front of the tunnel while I'm back standing in the open door. This bar would be used instead of the long duckbill or needle nose plier I showed you a picture of earlier in this thread. The bend in the very end of the bar is intended to open the hook and the other bend about 3" back allows the spring to be angled into the right position. Once the spring is hooked simply pull the bar out. Another handy tool to have then is your magnet on a stick you use to retrieve all that hardware you drop in the belly of your aircraft. Use it to reach in a position the spring so you can hook it with the safety wire from behind the back hook position as I previously described.

More thoughts. If my spring comes off again I plain to reattach it and then reach up with those long duckbill pliers and close the hook more so it can't come off. Also If I adjusted both rudder cables a bit shorter pulling the peddles a little further from the fire wall than the correct 6" they are set to now, say about 6.25", that would not allow the springs to go limp and the would stay hooked. And as previously stated if you have to much rudder deflection this would also cause the springs to go limp and be pushed forward.

[johneeb]

Bruce, you might check that the links (part 31 in the below image) are the proper length. Sounds suspiciously like they are to long or perhaps the Barrels (part 28) are incorrect. Or maybe the rudder stops are missing.

[n2582d]

Bruce,
When you wrote that you installed the springs with the open end of the front of the spring facing out I went back out to the shop to see if this was some sort of chinese wire puzzle I couldn't figure out.

xchinese_rings_l.jpg (6.75 KiB) Viewed 14514 times

As a kid I wanted to bend those crazy puzzles and now I see that you do too. Bruce that's cheating to open up the end of the spring! Installing the spring as in my first picture doesn't require mutilating the spring.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Gary,

After actually installing the springs, with the benefit of this thread discussion as to which way to install the spring ie hook in or out, I can say that I don't think it makes any difference which way they go in the front. I have found it just as easy to hook them with the opening towards the inside or the outside of the tunnel.

In the back it was my first opinion that the spring hook should face opposite the way I installed them but after doing it I find it would be nearly impossible to do that and not necessary.

You might note that both of my springs had the open end of the hook on each end in the same direction. I think Gary one of yours had the hook facing opposite one end to the other. I did not want to twist the spring which would put it under tension and since the back attaches in the same direction left and right in my case the front had to go the same way.

So in summary, I feel the backs have to hook the way I depicted in my drawing, and the fronts should hook which ever way they naturally point.

Gary I only opened the one spring on the right to assist in the installation and as I said that only lead to me getting more experience installing the spring. If anything I'd close the hook ends as much as possible in the front. You will not be able to close the back and still have it installed in my opinion.

[GAHorn]

...Here is ...the tool I made which is ...an old rusted 1/4" bar ...

Can you specify the age and the amount of rust necessary?

[n2582d]

Here's my first attempt at posting a You Tube video. Now I can bring my dissemination of bad advice to a new level! In the video I should have added the caveat that installing these springs should be done by or under the supervision of an A&P--this is part of a primary flight control system. In my opinion it is not preventative maintenance. I'm sure that having the firewall, rudder pedals, and rudder cables removed makes this much easier than doing this with all that in place but I think this gives a guy a good picture of the easiest way I have found to do it.

[jrenwick]

Very nice video! Couldn't be clearer. Thanks for doing that!

John

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Gary that is a very nice video and I appreciate your effort. Certainly gives a very clear picture of what one is trying to accomplish. I can not argue with your installation, it is how I would want to do it if it could be done that way with a firewall in place.

However I think that if you tried to accomplish exactly what you did while you were physically in the interior of the plane rather than reaching through the missing firewall, you would find it nearly impossible. For one thing I found it nearly impossible to get my fingers in through the slot in the side like you did. Were your rudder pedals installed as they would be on most aircraft in the field?

[n2582d]

John and Bruce thanks for the kind words. I was using this video more as a test for figuring out how to get my video downloaded on the computer and then downloaded to You Tube. Now that I've figured that out I could try to make a similar video with more stuff attached as it would be in your aircraft. I thought about taking the video showing the installation of the springs as if I had an invisible firewall and just using my hands through both sides of the tunnel. Not only did I not have the rudder pedals in place, all the brake hardware and rudder cables were also not attached. My guess is that half the battle is not just getting your hands in there, it's seeing what you're doing. A mirror and a drop light in the tunnel would probably help in this regard. Hopefully this video might help one picture what he is doing mostly by feel when installing the springs. I wonder if working from the co-pilot's side with rudder pedals removed would be the easiest way to install the springs--it's only two bolts to remove them as they don't have all the brake hardware attached.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Not only did I not have the rudder pedals in place, all the brake hardware and rudder cables were also not attached. My guess is that half the battle is not just getting your hands in there, it's seeing what you're doing.

Gary your starting to realize the problem. A light is a must but your just can't get our hands and fingers in the right place to manipulate the spring as required and for the most part you are doing it blind because you view is blocked by your hands. Removing the left copilot peddle might relieve some of that problem at least for the spring on the right which I found to be harder to install.

I wouldn't have had as easy time of this had I not had the benefit of advice given here over the years and since I've started this thread. Your video could not be clearer of the job to be done which in many cases is half the battle.

[DaveF]

My turn. Current prices are $28 and $18.