AvCon, Avcon, Av-con, ...a con?

[GAHorn]

I am posting this in order to resolve an issue of confusion regarding the "AVCON" name and it's association with the engine-conversion sometimes found on single-engine Cessnas.

The "Williams" surname, apparently a husband/wife small business, sometimes listed as in Udall, sometimes in Utah, or elsewhere... either owns or at one time owned an STC for installation of a Lycoming engine into a 170. The reputation of that company (sometimes referred to as "Avcon" and also known as "Bush Conversion") suffered from anedotal complaints of non-response to customer service requests, and stories of monetary-deposits made without product being delivered, as well as lack of STC-support. This post is neither denying nor confirming such matters.... Caveat Emptor in that regard.*

This post is to CLARIFY that another company, "Avcon Industries" of Newton, Kansas has been contacted by me, and they DENY any association with that entity which claimed to modify single-engined Cessnas. The Avcon Industries of Newton, KS holds numerous STCs which pertain to larger airplanes such as King-Air Turboprop, and Civilian/Corporate Jets such as Lears, Beech', and Hawker/BAe. They state they are not and have never been associated with the "Avcon" name which offered Lycoming conversions of Cessnas. This is their web link https://www.avconindustries.com/

* The "Bush Conversion" contact info has been changed from it's previous toll-free (800) number to 855-637-1870 according to a recording. I did not attempt to call the new number. The Direct-Dial ph no. I have for Bob and Barbara Williams is 620-782-3851. If you call that number you are likely to get a recording that instructs you to leave a message..or to email them at:
Williams.stc@gmail(dot)com
I am posting this only for informational purposes and make no recommendation either for or against.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Since I've been associated with 170s, which is about 20 years, I've NEVER heard anyone ever getting in touch with anyone associated with with the Williams or their companies Bush or AVCON. It's been nearly 20 years since I've heard stories of bad business practices associated with them. To be frank, I considered the Williams dead and gone and their STCs fallen into oblivion.

I can not believe there is actually still a phone number that would pick up with an answering machine for Williams, Bush or Avcon.

[DaveF]

No recommendations for or against, but you imply that there's a con. Where's the con?

[hilltop170]

Well, if someone wanted to, they could find out how many Avcon conversions are out there flying and when they were done. Then how long has it been since the last one was done? Are they still being advertised for sale? Were there any cases of money being paid and no products supplied? I don't have any of those answers but someone knows or could research it it they were that interested.

[GAHorn]

No recommendations for or against, but you imply that there's a con. Where's the con?

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/pro ... 221009.pdf

http://cessna170.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... 92&start=0

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5802

http://www.cessna170.org/forums/search. ... mit=Search

Stories abound...Do the research....but if You have found the opposite to be true... please post your experience as they can certainly use some favorable comments for a change.

Also, I posted this thread because it came to my attention that there is another company with a similar name that did not need to be confused with the Williams reputation.

[DaveF]

The Williams' reputation has been well-known for at least 20 years. It can neither be resurrected nor further damaged.

The Williamses bought a whole raft of STCs in the '80s, some of which were originally issued to Avcon Industries. No surprise the person answering the phone didn't know that.

But whatever ... have fun with this.

[c170b53]

Fair enough George
In one of those long coversations with Harry Dickler, the total contents of which, sorry I’ve somewhat forgotten, I was led to believe he was the technical production end of the Avcon engine conversion for Williams. He left them to create Del-Air for reasons he did not eloborate but I suspect his departure may have hastened Williams demise.
For many reasons I miss Harry like I believe many others do.

[GAHorn]

There's no intent to cause harm, Dave. This was brought to light again when I contacted Avcon (of Newton, KS) in my thinking it was the Williams, hoping to provide up-dated support-info to our Members... and I was surprised they had a website. The only "con" to which my chosen subject-line was thought to imply was the possibility that someone other than the Williams was attempting to use the "Avcon" name.
The folks that answered assured me they were not associated in any way and were surprised to be informed another company used that name and stated they were never associated with the Williams organisation in Udall, KS, nor had they ever worked with small airplane engine-conversions. They were clear they were not in any way associated, and that is the impetus for my creating this thread.... to avoid confusion. I realize you may have an Avcon Lycoming conversion and may feel defensive perhaps, but if you have positive relations with the Williams feel free to contradict rumor with your experience.

Jim, I believe you meant to refer to Harry Dellicker of Porterville, CA. To my knowlege Harry never had any direct association with Avcon although he did develop an STC very similar to theirs and the two frequently were confused with each other as a result. There were several instances of which I've heard that Avcon conversion owners could not get support for their airplanes and contacted Harry... who offered them assistance by advising them to make the minor changes in their installations to match his Del-Air STC... and he then provided them with supportive paperwork to establish their legality. Link to Harry Dellicker bio/obit: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/record ... =165927464

[PARKS]

George:
it sounds like there are two or more STC 180 HP 0-360 conversions for 170's. Which ones seem to be viewed more favorably? - which ones to avoid?
Hans

[GAHorn]

George:
it sounds like there are two or more STC 180 HP 0-360 conversions for 170's. Which ones seem to be viewed more favorably? - which ones to avoid?
Hans

Hello, Hans!
There are several engine conversions which enjoy popularity. Harry Dellicker's old company was taken over by his employees after his passing and is one which I've always received good reports.
Del Air
2121 Wildcat Way, Porterville, CA 93257
Phone: (559) 784-9440

These mods are not inexpensive. Plan to spend $50K on your $25K airframe. The cruise speed will not improve by more than a few knots unless you're willing to burn more fuel with resulting less endurance, but your takeoff and climb performance will be exhiliarating!
The four-cylinder Lycoming will also increase airframe vibration noticeably.

[daedaluscan]

Or if you want injected and six cylinders

http://stootsaviation.com/Home_Page.php

[ghostflyer]

This NOT a endorsement for any of the list STC holders mentioned . The modification of adding a Lycoming o-360 has attracted a number of people . This is my opinion only and you must do your own research and qualify your own facts before parting with any money.
The original “Willians” STC for Lycoming 180hp [o-360] engine was sold to Pete,s Precision Welding in Canada Ph no. 905-728-4616. What happen from there I do not know.
There is now a “Bob Williams” who also could have a STC for a Lycoming o-360 fittment to a 170. He charges only $1250 for the paper work,and no parts . But I have heard it can take up to 60days from he receiving your money until you get your paper work. His email address is williams.stc@gmail.com .
I have talked to a couple of unhappy customers who has tried to do business at Harry,s old firm , it’s not what it use to be. So the sarga goes on. However this isn’t a endorsement ,but the group in Alaska who has a STC for the conversion 180hp.for a 170 have all their ducks in order.
Now all of you wanting to file law suits against me please line up on the left of the corridor so others can leave. AND no pushing and shoving .

Good luck on your law suit, I have no money

[170C]

These posts are interesting to me since I have a '56 172 with a Ralph Bolen tailwheel conversion. That STC was apparently purchased by a Bob Williams in Kansas. I don't know if it is the Bob Williams referred to in these posts, but I would be surprised that there would be more than one Bob Williams in Kansas that possibly holds one or more STC's. I have attempted on several occasions over the past 29 years to contact a Bob Williams by phone and never received a reply. Fortunately my calls were simply to ask a question as I had no need for parts, etc. Now that I see there is an email address, I am sending an email to that address just to see if there will be a response.

[marathonrunner]

Okay. I’m about to just dump my membership with this organization. I put an Avon conversion in my 170 from Bob Williams about 20 or so years ago. I got it from a plane that had a landing incident. I spoke with him many times and he was quite cordial. My mount was tweaked and needed repair so I sent it to him and it was repaired and returned in a prompt manner and for a fair price.

Seems most posts here folks want stuff for cost less 20 percent. Sorry guys, your hobby isn’t your mechanics hobby. He or she have to make a living, pay bills and support themselves and family. I have responded to many members who were looking for parts and I have found them, gotten them from the salvage yard, packaged them all for free and without exception, every member has changed course and not gotten the parts due to costs of shipping from Alaska. I have a shelf of parts I could damn near build a 170 with.

If you think it is so easy to get and maintain an STC for a dwindling fleet. Jump in...the water is warm

[170C]

Referencing my earlier post today, I sent an email to the address George and David mentioned. Quite a surprise earlier this evening when I checked my emails to find Bob Williams did respond to my inquiry. My interest, as mentioned in my earlier post, was regarding the Bolen tail wheel conversion STC used on my '56 172 back in 1980. Bob advised that while no parts are currently being manufactured, he does have a pretty good stock of parts under the STC's he purchased from Ralph Bolen. I didn't inquire about any engine conversion STC's he might have. So those with questions in that regard should email Bob.