Insurance

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Re: Insurance

Postby IP076 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:21 pm

Just updated my record with Avemco as I hit 75 hours of tailwheel time. They lowered my premium to $1317.

Liability limits are 100/1M/1M and it states the premiums for that are $399. Hull is at $62k, with the premium being $918. It would appear hull value has the bigger impact on the overall premium.

5000TT with only 75+ now in tailhweels. I think they include recurrent training and such for the day job for a little bit of a discount. My policy was almost $1700 this summer when I bought the airplane with 14 hours in tailwheel aircraft and none in type. It has gone down at 25/50/75 hours of tailwheel.
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Re: Insurance

Postby GAHorn » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:38 pm

There are SO MANY variables in the many possible combinations of coverage that the simple things such as “hull / liability / family-exclusions / Pilot-experience/ open-warrnty/ war-risk/deductible / in-mothion / not-in-motion / hangared / not-hangared / per-event-max / personal-items theft / claims-history, etc etc.... whether or not the coverage is “smooth” or not.... that posting what MY premium is cannot possibly be compared to what others pay.

But here goes anyway: Falcon Ins. $70K hull, $1M liability, $500 ded all-activity, hangared, no-claim history, student-pilot named addt’l insured $1250.
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Re: Insurance

Postby cessna170bdriver » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:35 am

1M/100K liability, 80K hull, ~2700 total time, ~2400TW, ~2200 time in type. $991 Total.
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Re: Insurance

Postby brianm » Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:21 pm

Just renewed my insurance. For $1mil/100k on a $30k hull I was quoted $868. That's about $20 less than last year, despite increasing the hull somewhat. Commercial and instrument rated with 585 TT, 285 TW, and 245 hours in the 170.
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Re: Insurance

Postby dstates » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:00 pm

brianm wrote:Just renewed my insurance. For $1mil/100k on a $30k hull I was quoted $868. That's about $20 less than last year, despite increasing the hull somewhat. Commercial and instrument rated with 585 TT, 285 TW, and 245 hours in the 170.


Can I ask who your insurance provider is?
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Re: Insurance

Postby brianm » Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:59 am

dstates wrote:Can I ask who your insurance provider is?

My broker is the Bullock Agency in St Charles, IL. The underwriter for my policy for the past several years has been Old Republic.
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Re: Insurance

Postby dstates » Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:28 am

brianm wrote:
dstates wrote:Can I ask who your insurance provider is?

My broker is the Bullock Agency in St Charles, IL. The underwriter for my policy for the past several years has been Old Republic.



Thanks, I have Old Republic as well...
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Re: Insurance

Postby Vertical » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:57 am

1m/100k

2019 $1,945 58k hull 0 time in type
2020 $1,200 58k hull
2021 $1,160 70k hull
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Re: Insurance

Postby ghostflyer » Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:56 am

Please do not complain about the cost of insurance . It’s so inexpensive in your country . To insure my hangar where I store my aircraft ,it’s over $2000 a year . Plus a host of fire fighting equipment has to be fitted also and a contract has to be signed for their upkeep. My hangar is 50ft by 50ft and 20 ft high with a concrete floor . It’s made of steel totally.
To replace the building and clean up it’s about $150,000 . Why I asked ,it’s so expensive ? I have never heard of a hangar catching fire unless a aircraft has crashed into it . The only hangar fire we have had in Australia is when a hangar full of navy aircraft was burnt down deliberately by the CO,s son. [he only got 18 years but let out much earlier].
I pushed and pushed for a answer. I was eventually told [not in writing] it was your ability to pay. :twisted: The insurance company has to make a profit and this is one area that can subsidise other risks and people who own aircraft can afford higher rates. We have only 2 insurance companies in this country and they work together.
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Re: Insurance

Postby GAHorn » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:07 pm

David, are those AUS $ or U.S. $. ?? (There’s about a 25% difference... $1Aus = $0.77 US.)
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Re: Insurance

Postby ghostflyer » Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:34 pm

Yes they are Aussie dollars. I forgot to include that as I get so angry over the cost of insurance and insurance companies behaviour . You pay your premiums for years and no claims and then make a claim and then the insurance employ a bank of lawyers to get out of the claim . While I have never made a claim but have clients and friends that have had major expense to fight the rejection of the claim or cost of repairs being split between owner and the insurance company so the insurance company pays the lest .
For example , we had this lawyer come into our workshop where a 172N was stored that had departed the runway due to a momentary strong crosswind wind ,and this lawyer made the statement due to the mains having uneven wear on the tires it contributed to the accident by 60% . ALL cessnas have uneven wear on their mains . The tires were not bald . I could see where this was going when a lawyer turned up . Owner contributed or blame percentage towards the accident due to the lack of maintenance .
I asked him what qualifications did he have in the aviation world? None ,but has been in many automobile claims. So I,asked how did you come to the conclusion of 60% of the accident contributed by the tires. It was a figure that he picked out of the air and that is where he was going to start negotiations . I asked what about the insurance assessor report . It’s only a guide and part of the procedure he replied . What he didn’t know was I wrote that report . I didn’t mention the tires in my report . I rang the broker and told him the circumstances of that day . We both came to the required agreement on the repair and I added no more lawyers allowed in the hangars as they could lean on a prop and they are could have a nasty accident .
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Re: Insurance

Postby GAHorn » Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:55 am

Here is my brief experience with aircraft insurance on a personal airplane (as opposed to my experience as a chief pilot/manager of a corporate flight department):

I suffered hangar rash on my right wing leading edge on the way to the 2002 Las Vegas convention due to some unknown person who manipulated my tie-down ropes in my absence. The repair estimates ran between $7K-$9K and I was insured with A——- and carried a $1K deductible. I filed a claim but dragged my heels on the repair because I didn’t have the time to do without my plane and did not have a shop I trusted to do the required entire leading edge replacement.

The claim went “cold” and after 5 years I became acquainted with Del Lehman of Mountain Airframe, a person whose workmanship met my standards and when I contacted A——- (ins. Co) was told the “cold” claim had been closed but I could re-open it. So I did...Del fixed it by (instead of replacing the entire leading edge) installing my right-wing land/taxi lighting as a mirror-image of my left for about half the prior estimates. A——- insurance agreed to pay the entire amount since I was willing to accept a less-than-full claim amount ($7-9K). I am very happy with that solution.

Some years later I became unhappy with A——-’s “family exclusion” (one of the major reasons their premiums are somewhat less than other underwriters) and changed to F——- insurance co. (who insured the corporate jets I flew while on furlough from my regular job) because they offered attractive coverage at very attractive premiums.

Recently I have been receiving invitations from A——- to return to them.

Very recently I visited with one of our Members (a retired SWA pilot) who told me of his experience with insurance on his 170: Since he’s turned 75 he has found that almost no one will insure him AT ALL despite his perfect flying record and Zero claim history. His insurance is with A——- now because his previous agent, F——-, has dropped him due to age. 8O He advises me to consider the possibility that it might be beneficial to find insurance which will insure older pilots as not all will do so anymore (he says virtually NONE will insure past age Eighty...EXCEPT A——- who apparently does not discriminate against age)...and the market is becoming even tighter as the market shrinks. He is recommending A——-. Hmmmnn.....
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An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Re: Insurance

Postby ghostflyer » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:41 am

There are leeches, swamp bottom dwellers, and insurance companies that’s about the order of life . I haven’t figured out where to put lawyers in that list yet.
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Re: Insurance

Postby GAHorn » Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:59 pm

ghostflyer wrote:There are leeches, swamp bottom dwellers, and insurance companies that’s about the order of life . I haven’t figured out where to put lawyers in that list yet.


My lovely daughter has become a New York Lawyer! (She’s a prosecutor for the Taxi/Limousine Commission and prosecutes egregious misbehavior and crimes committed by taxi, uber, limo, drivers.).... so I’ve decided that some lawyers can still be lovable. :wink:

My favorite line about lawyers:
In a small town a lawyer will go broke.
But Two lawyers will have a pretty good business.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Re: Insurance

Postby ghostflyer » Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:20 pm

George,
My daughter is also a lawyer and my wife [whos retired now] worked in a law firm for 24years . So I have been hit around the head with lawyers for years . Always right and quoting some text to back up their claim. That’s why I love aviation so much . Aircraft do not talk back . If you do not like them ,sell them . Buy another one .
At the end of the day with the aircraft in the hangar and doors closed it’s so peaceful ..quite ...just the wind gently rattlening the doors. The silence is golden.
[but I do love my family ,they keep me sane].
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