How to have fun flying with no medical.

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ghostflyer
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How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by ghostflyer »

About 6 years ago , I was approached by this 83 year old and he told me he had bought a brand new Cessna 182. He had a hangar down the end of the row from me and I often used to wave to him when I saw him on the tarmac. The new Cessna arrived and Matt [83 year old ] came down to me via his scooter and ask me to have a look at it. He explained to me he didn’t have a licence or a medical these days but he would pay me to fly him around locally . Just for fun. . So that afternoon I gained 3 hours in my log book flying this brand new Cessna . It had 13 hours on the clock.sometimes Matt would bring along a couple of his old cronies and a bucket of Kentucky chicken and a 6 pac of Mountain Dew. They were all diabetics I am sure , and away we would go . I let them all play and sit in the R/h seat. They carried on like 13 year old school boys . They “helped” me push the aircraft in the hangar after flying but they had big smiles and was always cracking jokes . A good time had by all. Even me . I never took any money off him. It was pure fun. So it’s my belief ,if you loose your medical or can’t fly for some reason keep your aircraft and have a standby pilot for the legal reasons .
Ps. Sadly Matt passed away about 14 months ago and that Cessna is still sitting in that hangar not flown or the hangars opened.
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mit
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by mit »

That is one sad story!
Tim
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

As a guy without a medical and 170 sitting in a hanger, I can tell you it is not that easy to have a pilot on standby to fly your plane let alone he allow you to fly your plan on his ticket.

First off all my pilot friends have their own planes. Guess who's plane they'd rather fly when they only get to fly, on average every other week. It is not mine.

Second, most of them are not tail wheel qualified. Eliminates most of them. And since I'd have to be PIC to qualify them, we can't do it. Then they would need 25 hrs for my insurance to cover them under my open pilot clause.

Two of my friends are very qualified and probably have as much 170 time as I do but again they'd rather fly the plane they are paying for. And while I can fly my plane better than they can, they'd really rather be at the controls cause any accident would be on their ticket.

Heck my partner Leroy, who's owned the plane since the mid 60s, who is now 82, and the one I was suppose to fly with when he lost his medical, won't go get his medical renewed cause of the cost of insurance. We were quoted over $3000 a year if Leroy is on the policy, that is a $2000 increase over last year. He's had his fun and can't see paying twice what he paid for the airplane 55 years ago to insure it for one year and maybe, if we are lucky, 15-20 hrs of flying.

Many might think you have a plan for this situation. Plenty of qualified friends who would love to fly your airplane. It is just not so easy.

Of course if I could afford a new 182 and a hanger, I could probably have a line of fresh low time pilots waiting to fly it with me. I have not the time for a 182 nor the money.
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ghostflyer
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by ghostflyer »

Sorry Bruce this wasn’t directed at you. Due to this virus and every body surposed to be at home , I was out at the airport doing a “security” check and walked pass Matt’s hangar. Had a look through the cracks between the doors and thought what a waste and there was a flood of memories. I have often wondered what happen to the rest of the gang. Kentucky must have made a hellva profit those days . It’s interesting to hear the clang of doors moving with the wind in the silence of the airfield. We have a number of two legged cockroaches that cruise around airports up to no good.
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c170b53
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by c170b53 »

I’m still working at the airport. We are carrying out storage checks, moving planes, firing them up and running systems. I’ve become a master of plastic tape. There’s the occasional flight but Its shocking to see and hear how quiet the tarmac is.
I guess liability fear would curb the temptation to go off the ranch and fly anyway without the Doc’s ok. I’m sure in the backcountry it happens sometimes. I’m not sure what I’ll do when my turn turns up. Feel for you Bruce.
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GAHorn
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by GAHorn »

I remember an Arkansas member who used to be on the Forums here (and with whom I had a somewhat contentious relationship because he disagreed with me on what he believed to be good flying procedures).
He flew for several years in/around Alaska before moving back to the lower 48 having never had a pilot’s license/certificate and never having received formal flight training. (Possibly the main reason we disagreed on how to fly airplanes.) He treated his flying responsibilities similar to the way he drove automobiles.... He owned it...He figured it out... he flew and drove... except he had a driver’s license. After a couple years he finally obtained a pilot certificate (at least I think he did.)
Before he died, my former IA used to operate his Comanche 235 without a medical for years. He was such an upstanding guy, I was shocked to find that out.
I have no idea how people can justify that sort of behavior. I also am somewhat perplexed at people who own/operate airplanes without basic liability insurance. I consider such behavior very irresponsible... and have made enemies by voicing that opinion.

I admire Bruce’s character, and am very sympathetic to his predicament. He can fly the socks off any airplane he chooses and he is one of the most responsible people I know, and he has the integrity to do the “right thing”. He is one of only two people I’ve ever told I’d allow him to take my airplane anywhere, anytime. I’d trust him with my airplane and family any day. And I feel that way still today...despite the medical cert issue.
Unfortunately, there’s no way to cover him on my insurance because of the medical issue, and neither of us would expose the rest of the world to our activities without providing financial responsibility of insurance. I wish FAA would allow the Basic Med rules to apply in his particular case, but Federal Agencies being what they are...
There are some things in life we just cannot rightfully do despite our most fervent desires.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

ghostflyer wrote:Sorry Bruce this wasn’t directed at you.
I know it wasn't aimed at me. And it sounds like it worked out well for your buddy Matt. And I'm glad it did.

But it did hit home cause last April when I first had to face this, I thought hey I'll keep the plane and fly it with all my friends. I suppose I need more pilots friends who don't own their own airplane, this was the kink in my plan. It just hasn't worked out. I could not convince any of my friends to sell their plane and fly mine for free with me. My plane would just not be their plane and so it would not be the same. I actually have two friend who have Light Sport who tell me to fly their plane all the time. I rarely do, it isn't my plane.
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3958v
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by 3958v »

Bruce You are always welcome to fly with me after this virus insanity calms down. You'r not too far away. Bill K
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flyboy122
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by flyboy122 »

I grew up on a little grass strip, and when my Dad got lonely he put up a few hangers for rent. Apparently one of the guys flew out there without a medical for 10 years. He only flew by himself, only on nice days, and only when he felt good. My Dad often spoke of this as a victimless crime. Like George, I'm not so sure. Your insurance is totally invalidated, which means you are opening up your family to a lot of liability. In addition, if you don't have a medical, why get a BFR? And why get an annual? No training and no maintenance are bound to lead to bad things.

When I was 17 or 18 I went to a Waco Club fly-in and got to be Jim Younkin's medical for a fly out breakfast. He wasn't nearly as enthused about it as I was.

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GAHorn
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by GAHorn »

AS kind as the offer to fly with someone might be... it probably emphasizes the problem... I think one of the unique enjoyments of flying is the freedom of individuality, of reliance upon one’s own self... is a primary emotion. The kind intentions meant by the flying offers just deepens that depression ...at least for me...

I think an ultra-lite might not seem so foreign at that point... It’d bring back the rush! :P
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
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ghostflyer
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by ghostflyer »

When we talk about non licensed pilots , I had the experience with quite a eccentric character about 20 years ago when trying to buy a continental O-300 engine . These engines are not very plentiful in my country. So when I heard about one that was laying down on a floor in a hangar about 200 miles away ,I was quite excited about it . So a bit of detective work , I found out where the owner was . After talking with the owner and this guy had a few marbles missing . He told me this engine had 750 hrs on it since overhaul about 10 years ago. It had log books . The price was $2700 . The engine suddenly appeared not far from where I live. I met the owner and offered him the money in cash . He rejected my offer and said he would collect the money later as he knew where my hangar was and he would deliver it. Engine turned up ,left in front of the hangar .
Nev Hackett was 86 years old at the time . 16 months went past and no Nev Hackett to collect . I didn’t have a recent address. Contacted CASA [equiv of the FAA] and did search on his name /address. No person existed ever in their data base.
Will continue this after breakfast
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ghostflyer
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by ghostflyer »

Well breakfast is over...
Nev Hackett didn’t exist anywhere , so at 80odd years old I thought he might have died. Then one night a bang on my door stood this character with his hand out asking where’s my money . He asked me out to his car and said a prop was part of the deal. It was a 8 holer. I wrote him a check then and there. I asked around the industry about Nev Hackett and was informed it wasn’t his real name . Some one told me he didn’t have flying license or even a driving license . It was said that he had a memory issue and when he couldn’t remember a name or place he would invent another one . He kept buying old aircraft and would fly them until he had another memory issue and he would start life over again. I found out over the years asking people about old aircraft abandoned at airfields , I worked out that there was 4 aircraft at least that used to be owned by this person . A French Robin [thats where the O-300 came from] , British Auster , tiger moth , and some home built. He only flew in outback country and never into the bigger cities.
I still do not know his real name was. The aviation world is full of interesting characters and villains.
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ghostflyer
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by ghostflyer »

The nev Hackett story is the most bizarre event in my life. Even after 20 years his name and events still cross my path. He had a company that used to transport wheat from farms to the rail head. He had a manager that used to run the very successful company . I talked to the manager of this company for about a hour about the Nev Hackett story and then the manager told me he hadn’t seen him in years and do I have a photo of him. I just couldn’t believe it.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

gahorn wrote:AS kind as the offer to fly with someone might be... it probably emphasizes the problem... I think one of the unique enjoyments of flying is the freedom of individuality, of reliance upon one’s own self... is a primary emotion. The kind intentions meant by the flying offers just deepens that depression ...at least for me...

I think an ultra-lite might not seem so foreign at that point... It’d bring back the rush! :P
George, you hit it on the head. I can fly someone's plane every Sunday. But it's not my plane, I have to fly it like they want me to fly it. I likely don't take off and land, really the only two maneuvers I thoroughly enjoy.

Though there hasn't been than many occasions this last year, when I flew my own plane with someone else as PIC, guess what, I had to fly it the way they thought it should be flown. I have much more real life experience than they do. I'm much more comfortable flying really close to airspace. I'm either in or I'm out. I don't plan for much of a buffer cause I was use to doing so with my job. When my good friend on our last flight in my 170 asked me what the altitude of the airspace above us was as we where 75ft under a Class C shelf, it was his nudge at me to give it more space. The fun factor immediately left me though he didn't mean it to do so. It hit home that it was his license, not mine, my "flying" days currently other than Light Sport are over.
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GAHorn
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Re: How to have fun flying with no medical.

Post by GAHorn »

The last ten years of my “career” flying was spent at CAE/Simuflite teaching, instructing, examining and I found it to be a lot of fun interspersed with reward as the “light” was seen by guys/gals coming up through the industry, as well as a learning experience as I picked up talents/techniques from other pilots, and especially from some of the most professional instructors I’ve ever had the chance to experience. There was hilarity, and it was always interesting, especially when one realizes that the recurrency-class you are presently engaging includes some of the famous performers in our industry. Example: Did you know Sean Tucker plays a mean banjo? I actually got him to bring his banjo to ground school one day and he gave us a performance never before expected!).

Many of the professional instructors with whom I worked were guys/gals who had lost their medicals or had “been retired” or furloughed by their airline or agency/organization. The experience is one I highly recommend to anyone who loves flying, airports, and flight operations. The technical classes which the employer sent us through were fascinating insights to the “behind-the-scenes” developments in our industry that operational-pilots rarely know about. (I’m thinking now of the ADS-B development background and calibration/verification details, especially in Europe, which few active pilots know of.)

Anyone near such a training facility might look into that arena and find a very rewarding surprise awaiting. It’s a perfect atmosphere for an ego-hungry personality such as a pilot... where else can you be the center of attention or source of recertification amongst your peers? And the knowledge, background, and expertise of your peer-instructors will cause you to realize you can’t always know it all despite your best efforts... always in good-humored, energetic friendships. And that is one of the finest working-environments because it is a cadre of peer-professionals.

Beside CAE/Simuflite, there’s Flight Safety, Sim-Com, and others. (An interesting article exists at : https://www.flyingmag.com/ever-changing ... imulation/ )

Do not let your experience and professionalism be lost to our industry! Consider passing along what up-and-coming aviators don’t know what they don’t know.... and enjoy the work while you continue to also learn. :wink:

Besides, “Ya Never Know” who Ya might meet: http://cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5145
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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