Very informal study of 170 sales.

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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby GAHorn » Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:30 pm

Well…there is something which can be said positive for a Super Cub. Duct Tape actuallly CAN make it fly again (after a bear attack.)
https://aviationhumor.net/duct-tape-use ... ar-attack/




2BF402C0-CC87-4844-8B61-B87F4F2999CF.jpeg


1E53D37F-177C-4944-94A7-446288B805C0.jpeg
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
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An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby hilltop170 » Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:34 pm

They wasted waaay too much duct tape on that repair! It would have flown with 1/4 of that tape! :lol:
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:37 pm

George, my current pride and joy.
Vagabond PA-17.jpeg
Piper Vagabond, PA-17


Teresa says this is the best airplane we've owned
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
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N7A '49 170A -More original than most making folks GREEN with envy
N42532 '45 J-3 Clipped Wing Cub
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby GAHorn » Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:53 pm

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:George, my current pride and joy.
Vagabond PA-17.jpeg


Teresa says this is the best airplane we've owned


Sweet! Take me for a ride sometime?
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby GAHorn » Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:59 pm

c170b53 wrote:Don’t hold back George :)
I haven't the knowledge to know what’s good , better or best but supercubs do command a price premium and owners are very fond of their plane#. Kind of like us, 170 guys.


Here’s an article that points out some of the differences between Pipers and Cessnas that I generally agree with…but not all his comments make sense to me. I still believe it can be safer to fly than drive across Austin, Texas. :?
http://harris1.net/hold/eddy/Safe_Airplane_NOT.htm
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby johneeb » Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:53 am

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:George, my current pride and joy.
Vagabond PA-17.jpeg


Teresa says this is the best airplane we've owned

Bruce, are you back among the flying? Sport Pilot of special issue? whatever way great news!
John E. Barrett
aka. Johneb

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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby GAHorn » Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:23 am

johneeb wrote:
Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:George, my current pride and joy.
Vagabond PA-17.jpeg


Teresa says this is the best airplane we've owned

Bruce, are you back among the flying? Sport Pilot of special issue? whatever way great news!


You can’t keep a Good Man Down! :lol:
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:53 am

johneeb wrote:Bruce, are you back among the flying? Sport Pilot of special issue? whatever way great news!


Sport Pilot
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email:
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N42532 '45 J-3 Clipped Wing Cub
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby brian.olson » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:18 pm

This news warms my heart, Bruce.
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby Vertical » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:37 am

GAHorn wrote:
I don’t consider the Super Cubs to be any better than several Cessna models for bush-work or any other work. They simply have a good combination of power vs weight which was developed out of the sorry construction designs of the earlier Cub series. The Cessna 180 and 185 airplanes were the result of similar progressions over at Cessna, but with a much better construction/design. (The little Cubs have a fond/nostalgic following ….and I am not criticizing that. I love the sight of a J-3 or any of the others, and the short-wing Pipers are fun returns to prior times. But their designs actually suck, IMO.
Example: The J3 has lousy wt/bal and must be soloed from the back seat. The crashworthiness is one of the worst, with a fuel tank in the lap of the fwd occupant, and seat structures than can impale your bottom-end in a hard landing. Horrible heel brakes. “Barely able to Kill you… but does so painfully.”

Their popularity is a nostalgic one, at least for me. I much more admire the C-120, C-140, C-150 as trainers and runabouts.

My preferences: Cessna Singles. Piper Twins, Beech Anything (as long as it doesn't start with “D”. (Debonairs are cheap, downgraded Bonanzas. Dukes are road hogs, maintenance hogs, and hangar queens. Duchesses are flimsy twin-engined developments from airframes which were fine for economy-Musketeers/Sierras.) YMMV



I wasn't saying the Cub is a better airplane model. I said it was a better VALUE model. I was simply lamenting that 170 market values (the topic of this thread) aren't more similar to the way cubs are priced, because 170's really are a fantastic balance of performance economy and utility.

But since you went there...In the context of " bush-work or any other work", the Supercub is literally the most successful airframe ever built for the niche it fills. There is a reason that every single part on a cub can be purchased brand new, today, from any number of vendors including many legal modern upgrades. There is a reason the design has been successfully cloned over and over and over again. Cubs still literally form the backbone of Alaskan commercial part 135 and outfitter "bush-work".

In an apples to apples comparison for the Supercub's niche of "bush-work", what cessna could possibly compare? Do you really think with a little more of cessna's refinement and a bigger engine a 140 could haul a 1000 lbs off a mountainside or land on rocks the size of basketballs? Do you think you could flip, submerge or crash a cessna and then get it flying again with nothing but duct tape and alder branches when your life depends on it?

I love my 170, and the 180/85's are remarkable, work horse planes that have stood the test of time, but my gosh.. give credit were its due.
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby Aaron » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:22 am

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:
johneeb wrote:Bruce, are you back among the flying? Sport Pilot of special issue? whatever way great news!


Sport Pilot


Glad to hear you're still flying Bruce! I'm doing my best to keep your old steed N7A in fine form.
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby GAHorn » Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:02 pm

Vertical wrote:…. 170 market values (the topic of this thread) ……

But since you went there..... give credit were its due.


I wasn’t trying to change the topic…. or turn this into a comparison of Very Different airplane designs. You are who “went there” and introduced the Super Cub into “the topic of this thread” when You first posted:

Vertical wrote:I've always considered PA-18 Supercub values to be the ideal model…….


Just giving credit where it’s due. Image
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:43 pm

Back on subject, prices are way up for all aircraft regardless of design. I'm now insuring my PA-17 for double what I paid for it just a year ago. And that is just about what I'd insured my 170 for 2 years ago. Prices are naturally higher for those more popular aircraft. Those more popular because of design, capability or simply nostalgia have a bigger market and can demand more for them
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email:
N7A '49 170A -More original than most making folks GREEN with envy
N42532 '45 J-3 Clipped Wing Cub
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby Vertical » Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:24 pm

GAHorn wrote:
Vertical wrote:…. 170 market values (the topic of this thread) ……

But since you went there..... give credit were its due.


I wasn’t trying to change the topic…. or turn this into a comparison of Very Different airplane designs. You are who “went there” and introduced the Super Cub into “the topic of this thread” when You first posted:

Vertical wrote:I've always considered PA-18 Supercub values to be the ideal model…….


Just giving credit where it’s due. Image



OK GAHorn. Sure. Whatever you say.
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Re: Very informal study of 170 sales.

Postby dkmp215 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:49 pm

Thanks for the interesting topic everyone. I have recently and reluctantly come to the (almost) decision to sell my 170 so was browsing around various sites trying to determine an asking price. I haven't yet determined that, but I appreciate all the comments from those of you who have a better knowledge than me of the current airplane market. Cheers!
Dave Patterson
C-GFYQ - 1948 C170 S/N 18694
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