lifting a plane

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Re: lifting a plane

Postby minton » Fri May 21, 2010 5:46 pm

Use the Cessna lift rings and spacers. It's money well spent. Drop your plane and you will understand.

The spar blocks don't need any further machining, they have all the room you need for the eyebolts. Center your 7/8" hole exactly between the two rows of rivets on the spar cap skin and 42 3/4" apart or 3 1/8" from the skin ends.(measured to the center of the holes). You don't need the rear lifting rings as the a/c is pretty well balanced lifting from the front rings. You might need to drill the hole in the bottom of the carry through spar for the lift ring shaft. Be sure to use the large back up washer on the nut end. You might need to notch it to the same width as the spar block as the wing spar end could interfear (bottom) on the washer before the attach bolt hole is lined up. Measure it up first so you don't have issues in the middle of your install. I don't have a IPC for the "A" model for reference so not sure about the spar being pre-drilled, the "B" models are.

A couple of tips.
You can loose the backup washers and nuts down the door post during install, so guard against that happening.
Use the "AN" grommets as the "Home depot" type stuff won't last in the sun.
Turn your fuel selector to right, left or off, NOT BOTH, as when you are hanging. Your fuel will try to migrate to the heavy wing.

Good luck.
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby fly dakota » Sat May 22, 2010 3:10 am

thanks all good info and humor very helpful thanx (went for a ride in a float plane today first time pa-18 wibe body w/180 very near the greatest thing i ever done noting like it)
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby HawkerCFI » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:39 pm

A couple of short comments to add...

It seems when I've seen planes lifted by the eyebolts on top, that spreader bars were used so that the lifting force on the eyebolts would be straight up not pulling in toward the middle. I suspect one of our engineer types might have a comment about that.

For floatplane usage...should there not also be cabane struts installed inside the windshield area...and are reinforcements necessary on the sides of the fuselage?...but then I'm probably getting way ahead of the subject here.

And speaking of digging myself in...

Bob
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby hilltop170 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:12 pm

HawkerCFI wrote:It seems when I've seen planes lifted by the eyebolts on top, that spreader bars were used so that the lifting force on the eyebolts would be straight up not pulling in toward the middle. I suspect one of our engineer types might have a comment about that.
Bob


That is correct. Just as when a plane is in a 60° bank it sees a load factor of two, lifting with the eyes at a 60° angle of pull will double the load on the eyes plus inducing a side load instead of a straight up pull. A spreader bar should always be used.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby Blue4 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:11 pm

I've spent a little time searching for an approved and economical source for these parts. The 170B parts catalog details the eyebolt assembly on figure 104, "hoisting provisions." There are 5 unique items in each assembly:

0541115-3, Eyebolt
0541115-2, Spacer
AN931-10-14, Grommet
AN970-5, Washer (2 ea. per assembly)
AN365-524, Nut

As you can see, the only two nonstandard AN parts are the eyebolt and the spacer. These parts run around $100 for each eyebolt and around $13 for each spacer depending upon the source.

Air Repair in Cleveland, MS has L-19 parts which we believe may fit. The part numbers are:
0611287, Bolt, Eye - Steel
0611288, Spacer, Sleeve
These can be detailed in the L-19 IPC on these two pages:
http://www.airrepairinc.com/L-19-parts/pages/2-025.html
http://www.airrepairinc.com/L-19-parts/pages/2-026.html
The good folks at Air Repair weren't 100% sure that they would fit, but "would be very surprised if they didn't." As best as we can tell from both IPCs, the L-19 blueprints, and the eyebolt dimensions (http://www.wbparts.com/rfq/5306-00-997-3034.html) they match. I will attempt to update this thread either way.

Incidentally, the quoted price for the L-19 eyebolts was $71. I asked if they can apply a TIC170A discount, but they were unsure at the time of the order. The sleeves were similarly priced.

I think it is well worth the effort to find an approved source for something so critical -- dropping the airplane sounds expensive. I can't trust hardware store items -- even forged ones.
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby minton » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:55 pm

Blue4 wrote:I've spent a little time searching for an approved and economical source for these parts. The 170B parts catalog details the eyebolt assembly on figure 104, "hoisting provisions." There are 5 unique items in each assembly:

0541115-3, Eyebolt
0541115-2, Spacer
AN931-10-14, Grommet
AN970-5, Washer (2 ea. per assembly)
AN365-524, Nut

As you can see, the only two nonstandard AN parts are the eyebolt and the spacer. These parts run around $100 for each eyebolt and around $13 for each spacer depending upon the source.

Air Repair in Cleveland, MS has L-19 parts which we believe may fit. The part numbers are:
0611287, Bolt, Eye - Steel
0611288, Spacer, Sleeve
These can be detailed in the L-19 IPC on these two pages:
http://www.airrepairinc.com/L-19-parts/pages/2-025.html
http://www.airrepairinc.com/L-19-parts/pages/2-026.html
The good folks at Air Repair weren't 100% sure that they would fit, but "would be very surprised if they didn't." As best as we can tell from both IPCs, the L-19 blueprints, and the eyebolt dimensions (http://www.wbparts.com/rfq/5306-00-997-3034.html) they match. I will attempt to update this thread either way.

Incidentally, the quoted price for the L-19 eyebolts was $71. I asked if they can apply a TIC170A discount, but they were unsure at the time of the order. The sleeves were similarly priced.

I think it is well worth the effort to find an approved source for something so critical -- dropping the airplane sounds expensive. I can't trust hardware store items -- even forged ones.


AMEN!!!
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby Blue4 » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:15 am

Ok, I could use some help! I've assembled all the parts as listed above; and now I actually need to install the rings. The trouble is, I've removed about everything I (easily) can and found that I can't access the hole in the spar carry-through, as it is surrounded by structure. It appears to me that the only way I'm going to be able to access it is by drilling out rivets on the Door Post Inboard Reinforcements (number 21 in the IPC callout below).

Any ideas from the gallery?

By the way, I'm installing these rings as part of putting the aircraft on floats. As such, I consider them a necessity when it comes to gear-change time.

Thank you! I'm sure there will be no shortage of opinions.
-Scott

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5 ... =569257247
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby GAHorn » Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:14 pm

Lifting Eye and Block.JPG
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby minton » Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:16 pm

Absoltutely DO NOT drill out those rivets or cut any new holes in that area!!!! The only new holes will be in the top skin. You gain access through the wing root area. A few "special" tools will need to be crafted and the use of a sticky substance to hold the nuts washers etc. I would chase down a good 'ol boy mechanic that has lots of experience for advise.

The illistration provided by Mr. Horn is outdated. Now the slots are now longer thus providing room for the lift rings without drilling the blocks.
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby c170b53 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:18 am

I've wondered about these blocks for sometime and as Minton mentioned I've seen the lift ring bolt passing through the inboard side of the wing attach bolt (I believe on the 180). I've never seen the original install so I'm curious as well on how to retrofit the 170.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby minton » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:15 am

Either way you might have to remove the wing to accomplish your task.
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby Blue4 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:47 am

I'll attempt to post pictures as the project progresses. (Although I was stymied how to do this in my last picture-post).

Minton's measurements in this thread are spot-on. It takes quite a bit of faith to drill based on measurements you found on the internet, but after thoroughly investigating my airplane they were perfect. You definitely do NOT need to drill off any pieces of the airplane structure.

We found that the "blocks" inside the spar carry through channel are NOT drilled, but as Minton also correctly pointed out, they're molded or milled such that there is a square channel for the lifting ring to go through. So I guess you could call that "drilled" after all, depending on your point of view. The bottom line is that there was the right amount of open space. My spar carry through, however, required a hole to be drilled in it.

I am about halfway through the first side of the install. I thought this would be a good introduction while I work up the courage to drill out my floorboards to install the float kit! I hope not, because its been a pain due to being unable to see where we wanted to drill. Like I said, measurements!

I don't think I'm going to have to remove the wing(s) to complete the task. The difficulty lies in getting the top washer into the spary carry through channel. I think I have a method worked out; if it does work I'll post more pictures.

It sounds to me like this is an often talked-about modification, but seldom actually done. If you don't have a reason to do it, I wouldn't go through the trouble!
-Scott
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby minton » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:03 am

Scott,

I would not bother with the top washer. The spacer bushing is plenty wide to offer alot of "Bearing surface" for the purposes of torqueing the eyebolt. You might however need to add a second large area washer on the bottom to prevent thread locking on torque down.

As an asside: Let me know when you are going to attack the rear (sta. 90). I might be able to provide some measurments as my floor boards are still up.
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby Blue4 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:56 pm

I was finally ridiculed into learning how to post photos. I took these photos last winter while we were installing a float kit on an airplane. They're germane to this conversation.

This photo shows what is actually underneath the skin. Using the dimensions provided by minton above, we drilled a small test-hole (#30 or so) to see if they were correct. They were exactly correct! Dropping a pick down the hole went all the way to the bottom of the front carry-through spar channel. After enlarging the hole with a couple of step drills, you see that the block doesn't look exactly as pictured in the IPC. There's not a round hole at all -- its actually a square opening in the block similar to what the IPC shows, only the opening extends further inward than shown. Two of the 4 through-bolts are shown in the photo. At the bottom you see the hole that must be drilled to allow the shank to pass through. (Viewed from above the wing looking down, as though you were refueling)
lifteye1.jpg


In this photo you again see the top skin, and the modified washer that allowed it to pass through the hole. This allows the washer to still be used as depicted without having to remove the wing. (Same position view as above)
lifteye2.jpg


This is the most challenging portion of the whole operation: getting the washer and nut on without dropping them down the airplane! Duct tape, magnets, safety wire, and a good crow's foot made the job possible. Also visible is the nut from one of the through-bolts mentioned above. (Viewed from underneath with the wing root fairing removed, slightly looking forward)
lifteye3.jpg


Its nice to document the installation of this item, since its talked about a lot but seldom seen done.
-Scott
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Re: lifting a plane

Postby archerw » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:59 am

Just installed lifting eyes on my A with a little help from this thread. Because the skin is only 5/8" above spar block, a step drill starts to interfere with the spar block as you get near 7/8" so might go the holesaw/spade bit route if I were to do it again. I would be OK with that because the measurements (3-3/16" from edge rear, 3-1/8" front, both centered along spar between rivet rows - per '82 100 series "Hoisting Provisions") turned out to be very accurate. My wings were off so it was extra easy. Opened the skin up an then piloted with a 12" bit to get it square before final 5/16". Since I blew $1.20 on the plates, put them up top but still had enough threads to put two 970 washers underneath. Parts still available from Air Repair as of 2018:

4 each 0611287 lifting eye $79.10 each
4 each 0611288 spacer sleeve $11.30 each
4 each 0611336 plate $.30 each
4 each MS35489-17 grommet $1.52 each
4 each AN970-3 large area washer $.51 each
4 MS21044N5 nut $.55 each

Thanks
Danny Lowery
Air Repair, Inc.
Phone: 662-846-0228
Last edited by archerw on Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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