Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

For some time I've been ready to upgrade my Garmin Pilot III and had all but decided to pull the trigger on a Garmin Aera 560.

But with the latest gizmos and software available for the IPhone, Ipod Touch and IPads I'm thinking that might be the way to go. I've got several friends the Iphones and some of them have aviation apps but no one really using it at their only aircraft GPS. One friend is now using something on his Iphone and his IPad when he is getting ready to fly and could use them in the cockpit but still uses his 430 and 496.

Another has an Ipad and a new bluetooth GPS for it and I think Foreflight software but I'm pretty sure he's not using it for navigation, just a back up to the paper maps and charts and another handheld aviation GPS.

At work for about a year and a half we've been using the Ipod Touch with Documents To Go to run an Excel spread sheet to complete the W&B required for each part 135 leg. We have a few weather apps on the Touch as well that work through wifi if we are in a hot spot which is becoming more and more frequently found at hospital heliports I fly into.

I just bought a Dual Electronics XGPS150 Universal Bluetooth GPS Receiver to try out with the companies Touch and so far in it pretty incredible. This is a 64 channel WAAS enabled Apple approved stand alone bluetooth receiver that will work with any bluetooth device including my computer.

I've got a trial version of Foreflight which I can use for a month free. It is pretty neat but seems to be more of a planning program and then something one might watch for overall flight progress but not actually follow. For example it doesn't seem to have a direct to function though I suppose I could build a flight plan and follow it. I'm thinking of trying SkyCharts which seems to be a bit closer to what we think of when we think of a handheld GPS.

I'm pretty much set on just getting a IPod Touch rather than a IPad. I think the IPad is just to big to use in the cockpit. The Touch is a bit small but twice as big as my Pilot III screen and can do thousands of things my Pilot can't.

XM receivers will be available this year from at least two sources for the IPad and you may be able to use an WxWorx box for XM right now. Also in areas like mine (Philadelphia) with ADS-B, there is a receiver one might be able to use for free weather and TIS. Problem with ADS-B is it isn't available every where and won't be for a while if ever.

So what if anything IPhone, Touch or IPad are others using or trying out. It is a brave new world out there. And BL I understand you probably won't be chiming in with much here except to ask what the heck we're talking about. Understandable because no one needs a GPS for their Vespa scooter.
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4583C
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by 4583C »

Bruce
One of my buddies has been using ForeFlight on an ipad for several months now and loves it. He has a 296 also and is using the ipad as the primary nav device with only the gps receiver in his 3g ipad. He thinks the ipad with ForeFlight is easier to operate than the 296 and the 296 had at least a year head start. The larger screen of the ipad is appealing to me. Glad you asked this question as I have been reading everything I can google on the topic for a couple of weeks.
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by GAHorn »

As I am going thru teething-stuggles with my new Droid-X smartphone...clearly I am not the person to contribute much to this topic...but while at the airport a couple days ago, a real "techie" type with every whistle/bell/processor imagnable at his disposal... was really excited about something called the "E-Sony" which apparently does everything (flightplanning/mapping/navigating/charts...including appch/hi/lo/terminal/area ...and superimposes the aircraft ON the appch-charts/enroute=charts, etc..)

Just another choice in the befuddling myriad available out there....
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by bagarre »

I'm in the same boat, trying to figure out what device to get.

I use my iphone for planning before every flight.
The Garmin Pilot My-Cast Aviation is great for weather, TFRs and ballparking time and distance.

The problem I have with using the iphone in flight is the available maps. No one has really come up with a map layout that works with the small screen. Everyone uses the Sectionals which is pretty useless (IMO) on a screen that small. If someone made an app that was designed for the little screen, I'd jump on it and velcro it to the panel and call it even.

The iPad is nice if you have someone to hold it for you...it's too big to mount anywhere. On my flight to Pittsburgh, my wife held on to it and I could glance over at it now and then. It was nice as a backup for my thumb on my paper charts. I didnt try to fly by the ipad tho. I used the CDI on my 250XL for that.

If they made an iPad half the size, I'd be all over it.
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by jrenwick »

I've used iPhone apps, but not iPad. CoPilot is good for flight planning and W&B, but I like it a lot better on a Palm device. Some of its best features on the Palm weren't carried over to the iPhone version. It isn't available for Android.

I've tried SkyCharts, which is very nice because you always have the current stuff: sectionals, enroute charts, approach plates, A/FD, etc. It works in the air to follow your course, but after doing that I noticed that my iPhone had used about 60% of my monthly data plan (200MB) during the flight. I had also been using the Google Maps app to try to identify something on the ground, so I don't know which of the two apps was using so much data. It might well have been Google -- it could not download map segments fast enough to show me anything at the blazing speed of a C-170 at cruise.

I don't know how an iPhone's "GPS" actually works, but it doesn't update smoothly like a real GPS receiver. The position it showed me on SkyCharts was fairly accurate, but the reported ground speed was jumping all over the place. I don't have an external Bluetooth GPS receiver, but maybe that would solve the problem.

I use AeroWeather on the iPhone to get METARs and TAFs. It's great. I also have AOPA's airport directory app, which beats the heck out of carrying that big book! A flashlight app for the iPhone 4 is really handy -- turn on the camera's LED when you need illumination.

I have never tried to use the iPhone in flight while flying an airplane -- only while someone else was flying. My 170 has enough GPS brains of its own, so I don't need to use the phone. But the next time I'm flying and need A/FD information, I'll certainly pop it out and pull up SkyCharts!
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by canav8 »

Old Eyes will bless the iPad. The iTouch is the same thing just bring a magnifying glass! LOL. I use both Foreflight and Skycharts. Either way the iPad is hands down the winner. Blow off the touch! D
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

I've said from the day I first saw an IPad that if it was half the size it would be ideal in a cockpit. So the choice is the small IPhone/Touch or Ipad. I do not want a data plan so the Touch works for me and as i said it is bigger than the Pilot III I'm using.

But as also mentioned the new devices seem to rely on images of sectionals which do not lend themselves to be blown up to say 5 mile view. Maybe someone will overcome that.

As I said I don't want a data plan so all the maps will have to be downloaded into the devise. Both ForeFlight and SkyCharts do that. The key is turning your 3G off or they will attempt to download the maps on the fly. Both ForeFlight and SkyCharts have both VFR, and Low Alt IFR charts and approach plates as well as the AOPA directory and more. ForeFlight has Wx if you have a Wifi or 3G on and connected. SkyCharts might as well but wifi and 3G won't work reliably in the air and again I'm not buying a data plan at this point.

I don't know much about the Droid options as I'm a 25 year Apple fan. I actually think the Droid platform might have more options as far as size goes well before Apple will market a half size IPad if they ever do.

More later. Off to test the Touch and ForeFlight flying to breakfast this morning.
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by cessna170bdriver »

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:I'm pretty much set on just getting a IPod Touch rather than a IPad. I think the IPad is just to big to use in the cockpit. The Touch is a bit small but twice as big as my Pilot III screen and can do thousands of things my Pilot can't.
I was at an FAA Safety Team (FAAST) seminar in Bakersfield yesterday, and one of the speakers demonstrated the aviation apps he uses on his iPad. I knew about ForeFlight, but had never seen it used before. It worked just great, even indoors. If I hadn't just popped for a new PC at home, I would be considering an iPad. As for the size, he had an adapter so that it could be used as a kneeboard. It didn't look like it would be in the way at all, it isn't much thicker than a heavy piece of cardboard.
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by blueldr »

Holey, Moley! All you high tech guys are really getting my juices flowing. I'm gonna get a radio for my airplane!
BL
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

I forgot to add that what I've read is that an external GPS will work better than the built in GPSs. For starters the internal GPS is not WAAS enabled. And as John pointed out they don't update as fast as we might want or be use to.

I elected to get an external blue tooth unit that ran on it's own battery. You can place it anywhere you want in the clear within 30 feet of your Apple device. I can also use it with my computer. The other options are units that plug into the bottom of the Apple device and use the mother units battery. While it probably won't be an issue in most of the GA aircraft you don't have the option of placing the GPS receiver in the clear.
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by KS170A »

I've been using an iPad 3G with ForeFlight and Jeppesen TC. I do NOT use the 3G data plan (haven't had a real need to since most FBO's provide wi-fi), but purchased the 3G version for the GPS function. True it is not WAAS, but for what it is, it is pretty neat. I still have my 496 on-board as well and am not planning to buy any external iPad devices, simply because I already have the other GPS for that information.

I have found that if ForeFlight loses the signal for whatever reason (iPad buried too deep in the cockpit), it takes a minute or two to re-find itself on-the-fly.

The convenience of having all airport, weather, and charts available in one app is pretty nice. I've also downloaded an app called Good Reader that allows me to manage .pdf files on the iPad. Very convenient to have my 170A owner's manual, IPC, and tons of other reference materials all right there.
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by jrenwick »

For airport data, weather and charts in the cockpit -- SkyCharts, while not a free app, does not charge for any updates. Foreflight is a $75 annual subscription, or $150 if you want geo-referenced approach plates (what a terrific idea - you can see your aircraft's position right on the plate!).
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by rupertjl »

My Ipad 2 is coming tomorrow and I already have the Bad Elf GPS chip ready to plug into it. I got the WiFi version only since I new I'd never use it with a data plan. I have planned on getting ForeFlight, but probably won't get the pro edition with the geo referenced approach plates. I've seen the kneeboard style holders that look appealing because I just can't figure out where a good place in front of me would be in the 170.

Bruce-fly over to Selingsgrove sometime you're bored and I'll let you mess around with the Ipad if you want.

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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Some more thoughts watching ForeFlight work as I drove home this morning.

First I figured out the direct to feature. I first didn't think it had one. But what it doesn't have is any kind of CDI. Yes you can see the little helicopter (what you thought I'd have an airplane :) ) veering off course but that is it. There is no option for ETA or ETE, bearing to, current track or most of the features we have become accustom to in a GPS unit.

Yes if you already have a GPS unit that you are navigating with and you always wanted an automatic finger to travel on a real sectional laying on the seat next to you, ForeFlight is pretty cool. But from what I've seen so far if you want to use ForeFlight as your primary secondary form of navigation or situational awareness, ForeFlight is not it. And I meant primary secondary form because no hand held is "suppose" to be used for primary navigation. :wink:

Yes ForeFlight would be better than no other situational awareness in the cockpit. But so far if I had any other form of situational awareness in the form of a dedicated aviation GPS, I probably wouldn't even turn on a Iphone/Touch or IPad for this purpose.

Does anyone know if SkyCharts allows a trial period? I'd like to compare it against ForeFlight.
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Re: Iphone/Touch/Ipad - what software and hardware

Post by jrenwick »

SkyCharts is 20 bucks for iPad, 10 for iPhone, no free trial. Also see WingX Pro7 (http://www.hiltonsoftware.com/) and iHud (http://www.i-hud.com/). I don't know anything about these, but I've heard you need the new iPad that has gyros in it.
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'42 J-3 Cub, N62088
'50 Swift GC-1B, N2431B, Oshkosh 2009 Outstanding Swift Award, 2016 Best Continuously Maintained Swift
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