Aviation Insurance Group of Oklahoma

A place to relax and discuss flying topics.

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eichenberger
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:27 pm

Post by eichenberger »

Joe - I too appreciate you gentlemanly response. I guess that we've "kissed and made up".
I whole heartedly agree that the legal system isn't perfect, or even close to it - but, it was devised by humans, none of whom in the last 2,000 years is perfect either. Winston Churchill once said that the Anglo-American legal system was awful and fraught with unjust results. He finished his remark by saying, "...but, I defy you to show me one better". I'd agree with that, and I think most people would, should they ever encounter trouble.
I truly believe that the legal system is a reflection of our society, and the law changes as society changes. That's why in 1880 something, the Supreme Court said that separate but equal schools were OK, and 70 years later, in 1954, outlawed segregation in public schools.
Back to civil cases - today no person sees himself as responsible for his own misfortune. Loose your job, and it's the government's fault. Burn your butt with hot coffee, and it's McDonald's fault. Get fat, and it's also McDonald's fault. Etc., etc., etc.
Years ago our firm had a case where some nut with more money than skill sued Porsche, claiming that the Turbo 930 was inherently dangerous because of the dynamics of a rear engine car with such excess power. That case didn't go far. But Porsche spent a ton defending it. Airplane manufacturers aren't the only ones facing this.
The only cure is at the ballott box - when voters see themselves as responsible for what happens to them, and elect politicians who think likewise, things will change. Until then, they won't.
I'm not taking bets on this though, too many people like the dole, regardless of whether it comes in a monthly check, or a jury verdict.
Jerry
Jerry Eichenberger
Columbus, Ohio
jeichenberger@ehlawyers.com
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N1478D
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Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:32 pm

Post by N1478D »

eichenberger wrote:Joe - I too appreciate you gentlemanly response. I guess that we've "kissed and made up".
Jerry
:D Very Happy that we are back on decent speaking terms. I'm going to promote the thought of the kiss going to someone else. It's known all over Texas that George does not get kissed - the threat of lip lock because he is so darn slow. You will want to pass him up, Eric on the other hand in that speedy raq wing could be an interesting challenge and he is all over those Cascade hills. :D
Joe
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
theduckhunter
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:32 am

Post by theduckhunter »

Glas everyone on this board has remained friends and it is interesting and always good to see differing points of view. Because I am an economist at heart and such a proponent of the free market and capitalism I am restating my opinion just to help those who may be on the fence when searching for insurance.

Please don't misunderstand. In no way do I suggest that one should do anything deceptive or unethical. The fact is that different agents starting with the exact same information can come back with different quotes from the same insurer sometimes with differences as much as 15% for the exact same coverage limits. Only give the agent what he needs to give you a complete quote, don't give him the power to lock down your N-number or serial so that other agents can't give you quotes as well.

If you have an agent you have used for a long time who you know is honest and you want to stick with only him, good for you and enjoy that relationship. If you are shopping for insurance and you want to get the best price, be smart, don't give him your N-number or serial number until you are ready to buy.

When shopping for a new insurance quote check as many brokers as possible. Checking only one broker is like buying a new car and only checking the price of one dealership.
Robbie Yeaman
Virginia
2993D, now 2980C a C-180
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GAHorn
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm

Post by GAHorn »

eichenberger wrote:George -
Your experience with different brokers getting different quotes for the same insurance is odd - in light of the industry standard that each company will only quote once for each risk, and decline a quote to another broker. How'd you manage to get different quotes from different brokers from the same underwriter?
As to the Bethany situation, that's why I had a big capital IF in my post to Joe. I don't have the time or inclination to be the Oklahoma Insurance Dept.'s investigator, so, no, I don't know what the final outcome if the squabble was, or if it's yet been finalized at all.
If I were going to deal with them, I'd surely ask for a complete explanation of all of the particulars.
The Insurance Journal, a trade recognized daily newsletter first broke the story about the unrefunded refunds. That's all that I know for sure, a story in a reputable trade publication.
I also agree with you that evrey person should read his application and policy. Unfortunately, few do.
Jerry
There's nothing "odd" about it, Jerry. I typically shop three brokers I've done business with for the last 35 years both professionally and personally. I give each broker the exact same information (including my N numbers) in a "fax". When I get the first broker's quote, I fax the identical info to the second, along with a cover letter authorizing that second broker as my "agent of record", and next recieve a quote from him/her. I repeat the process with the third broker. I then select the quote I desire to purchase, and notify that broker with a written acceptance of their quote, request a binder, and authorized them as my agent, all in one final fax.
I realize this might seem a bit of extra work, but I get better quotes for my clients (and for my own personal aircraft as well.) It's a simple matter. I hate the system, but I work within it. When they finally get fed up with my shopping techinique, .... maybe they'll change it and allow us to shop around without all the silly faxes.

As to the Bethany situation,... as an attorney I'm fairly sure you must be aware that publications, ...even professional ones,... are not reliable sources to accept as factual. I'm surprised an attorney would repeat such a source as factual information, without at least offering a disclaimer as to that source. I wondered if AIG-Bethany mightn't find your comments injurious without such finding in a court of law or at least by an appropriate gov't agency. I can think of several scenarios in which an agency mightn't refund money to a client, yet still be within their legal rights. Perhaps the client moved and left no forwarding address. Or perhaps the client hadn't paid the premium in it's entirety. Or perhaps the client hadn't actually requested the refund,... or a myriad of other technicalities which mightn't involve any fraud whatsoever on the part of the agency. Again,... I only think it odd that an agency would be truly involved in genuine fraud yet have it's license re-instated so quickly.
I wouldn't want any of us forum participants to find ourselves promulgating gossip without a factual basis.
zero.one.victor
Posts: 2271
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am

Post by zero.one.victor »

When all this AIG-monkey business talk got started,I was gonna ask what happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? The fact that AIG is doing business again so soon leads me to believe that maybe they were innocent of any monkey business,or said monkey business was in fact just some technicality issue. When I need to renew my policy next year,which I got thru AIG by the way,I'll be talking to them for a quote. Or at least seeing what the deal with them is at that time.

Eric
russfarris
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 2:25 am

Post by russfarris »

I spoke to AIG the other day, they have insured my 170 for four years and I wanted a quote on the 180 I'm buying. They have been sold, to Travers Insurance, and will cease to exist in a few months. Call AIG for the new 800 number for Travers, I can't find it right now. They quoted me 1,500 a year for the 180. Russ Farris
All glory is fleeting...
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Velvet
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2002 2:48 am

AIG

Post by Velvet »

For those interested, AIG's "book" (the bad guys) has been sold to Travers & Associates in St. Louis- 800-888-9859

Velvet
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Curtis Brown
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:47 pm

Post by Curtis Brown »

Just spoke with John at Travers> He said they have indeed purchased the book from AIG on the 170's. He also said they will be mailing out info soon and that he did not expect any change in premium cost.
Curtis
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wa4jr
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:44 am

Post by wa4jr »

WOW! What I missed while away from the forum! I think I am glad I missed it too. Perhaps we should just clear out the hangar one warm evening, rope off a ring, and have some REEAL "hangar flying" :lol:

Anyway, I called AIG-Bethany a couple of weeks ago to verify that I would be renewed and the nice lady on the other end of the line said that I would be insured another year...with a premium almost $100 less than last year. :D

Now, why don't we all go back to flying and stop flapping about an aspect of aviation that is so distasteful. :?
John, 2734C in Summit Point, WV
Neeraj
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Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:01 am

Re: Aviation Insurance Group of Oklahoma

Post by Neeraj »

Does anyone have any suggestions for the insurace of 170GBWhatsApp APK I talked with some of my collegues and didn't know much either. Some of them told me to contact Lawhon Insurnace Agency, LLC. What are your thoughts on Lawghon?
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Joe Moilanen
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Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:45 am

Re: Aviation Insurance Group of Oklahoma

Post by Joe Moilanen »

Neeraj wrote:Does anyone have any suggestions for the insurace of 170GBWhatsApp APK I talked with some of my collegues and didn't know much either. Some of them told me to contact Lawhon Insurnace Agency, LLC. What are your thoughts on Lawghon?
I just renewed with Global Aerospace, They're under Falcon Insurance Co.. I've been pretty happy with them for the past several years, however I haven't shopped around much. My policy is slightly over 1k per year, with 70K hull ( probably time to raise it...) I've got almost 3K hrs. in type, clean record. I'm also curious what others are paying.

Joe
4518C
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GAHorn
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Re: Aviation Insurance Group of Oklahoma

Post by GAHorn »

I was with Avemco in the late ‘70s …until a friend of my employer who was the EmCee of the CAF (when they were still in Harlingen…and was also an Independent Insurance Agent) convinced me to switch to Independent Agency representation. I then signed up with USAIG …who happened to insure the corporate airplanes I was flying in my day-job.

Then, one day I met someone representing Falcon Ins. Group and I switched over to them. (Falcon is an agency who represents many different underwriters in a traditional agent-underwriter-relationship.) I stayed with Falcon for about a decade….

Then one day I bought my 170 and I answered an Ad in ‘The 170 News” from Avemco and I was back with them for about 5 years….. and actually suffered some hangar-rash (which story I related elsewhere in these Forums)….and I did not have the repairs performed for about a decade or so…. In the meantime I’d insured with Falcon again because of a relationship I had with client flying his Hawker (125) and he was with Falcon…so I make my life simpler by insuring my 170 with the same Falcon Agent because she already had all my pilot-info on-file… basically making it a dirt-simple matter to have insurance without having to fill out dozens of pages of applications-for-quotes…since Falcon already had my info.

Then the COLD HARD FACTS: I was surprised when my Falcon agent pointed out that as I got older I might …”one day”…. find they could not insure me. Further, that I would likely be charged a higher-premium as I passed age 70…REGARDLESS of the fact I had an excellent operating record and lovely experience and certifications.
When I asked my Falcon Agent “what should I do when you guys no longer want to insure me because of Age…?”…. I was surprised to hear my Agent say “Call Avemco. They rarely discriminate against older pilots if the pilot still has a good record and maintins proficiency…. while we at Falcon will have a difficult time finding insurance on you anywhere!”

I also read an insurance-article in an aviation magazine which pointed out this same issue.

Bottom Line: I have switched back to Avemco and plan to stay with them the rest of my flying days.

PS: I also had some hangar rash back in 2002 which I did not correct until many years later. Avemco still stood behind me and paid to repair my airplane even tho’ I’d not made the claim for at least 5-7 years. That’s another thread I’ve posted in these Forums when instead of repairing the leading edge damage on my right wing…Avemco agreed to allow me to modify my airplane with dual-land/taxi lights in lieu of replacing the leading-edge-skin.
In my opinion, that’s a golden example of good insurance underwriting.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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