Sorry if I came off a bit slanted. I guess I was in one of those moods when I read it.
Thank you Bruce for the instructions. If I understand correctly, you have outlined two things: One is a test of the return springs, with the cables detached. Part two is, with cables attached and the rudder at zero deflection I am tightening the turnbuckles until the pedals match, side by side. When I rigged the aileron, I held the yokes together and tightened the turnbuckles until the ailerons came to zero deflection. Based on that, I would have held the rudder pedals in place until the rudder came to a zero position.
I remember seeing it somewhere on this forum, but now I can't find it: The eye turnbuckles - one is Short, one is Long. They are called out in the drawing as 10 (passenger side) and 11 (pilot side). In the following parts description they are numbered 9 & 10, not 10 & 11: 9- AN165-22S and 10- AN165-22L. I have the long one on the pilot side, the short one on the passenger side. Is that correct?
--Coincidentally, the design I am working on is actually red and white.
blueldr wrote:There seems to me to be a lot of questions about rigging from people that are not really supposed to be doing rigging on their airplanes.
Amen! It's so EZ to further screw things up by not evaluating the condition of all parts involved first then moving forward from the real beginning point with qualified persons and a up to date maint. manual to reference. And for course not searching the data base for similar topics before hand would save all of use from responding to the same old questions would help just say'in
Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:
It is good to have BL cut through the cloud with a reality check comment every now and them. Read and head if it applies. Don't take offense if it doesn't.
every now and then? I've come to rely on his sage advice and sharp wit for a laugh to go with my morning coffee.
blueldr wrote:There seems to me to be a lot of questions about rigging from people that are not really supposed to be doing rigging on their airplanes.
After seeing the way some of these airplanes are rigged, there seem to be a lot of people rigging their airplanes without asking a lot of questions. Qualified or not.
If only it was easier for people who do the majority of their own work to become qualified to do the majority if their own work. In some cases, the only difference in quality is the ability to put a signature next to it as I've seen some really questionable work come complete with logbook entries as well as some really good repairs done on the down low.
A whole volume could be written about either side of the logbook and level of skill.
My take is that one should not undertake such tasks without supervision until such point they are deemed competent.
We can all point to shoddy work, doctors, lawyers, politicians, mechanics, etc. Boils down to ability, skills, training, adherance to regulations, data and of course integrity. Cut corners and you get what you get!!
Worth doing over? worth doing right the first time!!
Go back and reread my description. I made a correction to the way I stated the return springs should pull the pedals and added some small detail.
Part of rigging is to make sure all the components are serviceable. This is a good time to look at the peddles, peddle linkage, peddle bearings then move on to all the cable pulleys and bulk heads they are attached to. You should also take the time to evaluate the rudder, the rudder bearings and the rudder control horn. There are probably more components but that is all I can think of at the moment but I did mention the return springs.
You want to make sure they are not broken and you can do that by pulling back about and inch and feeling the pressure from them. I don't know of a specific tension each should be but they should have the same tension at least and if one has more then they both are suspect.
I suppose that if you could hold the peddles 6" from the firewall with a block or some temporary device and then adjust each turnbuckle until the rudder was straight you would be accomplishing the same thing as I described. I did it as I described.
As for the long turn buckle and the short turn buckle.The long one goes on the left cable (the one that comes out the pilot side). The reason for one long and one short is to make up for the fact that the left rudder bar is in front (closer to the fire wall) than the right. The cables are the same length. So the difference in distance is made up with the turn buckles.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Go back and reread my description. I made a correction to the way I stated the return springs should pull the pedals and added some small detail.
Part of rigging is to make sure all the components are serviceable. This is a good time to look at the peddles, peddle linkage, peddle bearings then move on to all the cable pulleys and bulk heads they are attached to. You should also take the time to evaluate the rudder, the rudder bearings and the rudder control horn. There are probably more components but that is all I can think of at the moment but I did mention the return springs.
You want to make sure they are not broken and you can do that by pulling back about and inch and feeling the pressure from them. I don't know of a specific tension each should be but they should have the same tension at least and if one has more then they both are suspect.
I suppose that if you could hold the peddles 6" from the firewall with a block or some temporary device and then adjust each turnbuckle until the rudder was straight you would be accomplishing the same thing as I described. I did it as I described.
As for the long turn buckle and the short turn buckle.The long one goes on the left cable (the one that comes out the pilot side). The reason for one long and one short is to make up for the fact that the left rudder bar is in front (closer to the fire wall) than the right. The cables are the same length. So the difference in distance is made up with the turn buckles.
How old are the cables?? Galvanized or stainless steel? Condition especially around the pulleys and fairleads. My take is where they cannot be easily inspected you will find problems. Under floor behind the pilot/co-pilot seats (under the floor) there is a real visual inspection problem area. And if you find issues good luck my friend!
Thank you Bruce for the further explanation. I have the turnbuckle eyes on as you described. I was puzzled because I looked, just to be sure, in the parts manual and saw the discrepancy there. Panic...
Minton, the cables are new - just replaced them.
spduffee wrote:Thank you Bruce for the further explanation. I have the turnbuckle eyes on as you described. I was puzzled because I looked, just to be sure, in the parts manual and saw the discrepancy there. Panic...
Minton, the cables are new - just replaced them.
I believe one but not all the IPCs have the discrepancy.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
It's not illegal (nor necessarily disqualifying) for a non certificated person to work on an airplane.
It's only "contrary to the rule" to fly it without a properly certificated person having approved it for return to service.
I have operated many airplanes which were quite airworthy after a non certificated person worked on it.
I have operated a few which were unairworthy despite the approval of a certificated repairman's efforts.
By the way,... it's contrary to the rule also to perform repairs, THEN have an A&P approve the work. The A&P must directly supervise the work while it is ongoing.
(Although in some cases, A&P/AI types might, subsequent to inspection, "find" that work "previously accomplished" was performed in an approved manner.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Aryana wrote:"Read the Bible", a commentary in the latest issue of Sport Aviation touches on the subject of relying too much on the instant help of online forums instead of trusted texts. Although it is written for the homebuilding crowd, it was interesting to me.
And the advise from some that it's only contrary to the rule???? Whats that all about?? Sounds like it's OK but definition of "contrary" to the rule is?? How about; "Against, Opposite, Opposed to". We are a great bunch of people trying to help out some of the needie with supposed "Sage Advise". Well that particular one will backfire. I'd love to see that "Contray" arguement in court. Lets try to stay on course. Gray areas are for those who can pull to the side of the road when things go South.
Well.... as an example minton...
Some folks might say your response was obnoxious.
Others might simply say your response was contrary.
I think you sometimes you are a stickler for the rules....other times not.... whichever the mood strikes you at the time, ... but always you seem to think it's OK to criticize others in without regard to civility.
The "rule" is a word commonly used in aviation to refer to FARs, and FAA directives, Advisory Circulars, Accepted practices, etc. etc.
"Contrary to the rule" is a polite way to imply that something was done not in compliance with those guidelines. I was trying to point out that "under A&P supervision" means that the A&P was an active participant in the ongoing work and not merely "pencil-whipping" what some owner claimed he did, taking the owners word that proper procedures were followed.
I found your response to be rude. Did I misunderstand it?
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Yes, I'm a stickler for many reasons. You should be to, dispensing advice comes with liability. There are many newbies reading yours and taking it for gospel being a Moderator. Keep that in mind..
I don't mince words when it comes to safety and your points are valid.
just say'in
