Hartiwg (Monarch) Fuel Caps on a Ragwing
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- 48RagwingPilot
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:28 am
Re: Hartiwg (Monarch) Fuel Caps on a Ragwing
Thx. The FSDO will do a field approval, but not w/o a DER.
Re: Hartiwg (Monarch) Fuel Caps on a Ragwing
Then they're not doing a field approval. A DER usually has the authority to approve the modification...that's why they are able to charge handsomely for their work-product.48RagwingPilot wrote:Thx. The FSDO will do a field approval, but not w/o a DER.
Did you show your FSDO the modification illustrations in the first part of this thread?
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
- 48RagwingPilot
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:28 am
Re: Hartiwg (Monarch) Fuel Caps on a Ragwing
I submitted a very thorough proposal, complete with drawings and a DER report from another ragwing owner who, based on that report, received an approved Form 337 from the FAA. Bottom line: No DER, no approval (of any kind).
Re: Hartiwg (Monarch) Fuel Caps on a Ragwing
Why can't you use the other guy's DER paperwork as a basis for your proposal?
If you have permission to use the data, I don't see the issue.
Making you get yet another DER (or even the same one) to make paperwork seems like a forced waste of money as the papers will say exactly what the other paperwork says.
Is the report marked as valid only for the previous aircraft?
If you have permission to use the data, I don't see the issue.
Making you get yet another DER (or even the same one) to make paperwork seems like a forced waste of money as the papers will say exactly what the other paperwork says.
Is the report marked as valid only for the previous aircraft?
- 48RagwingPilot
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:28 am
Re: Hartiwg (Monarch) Fuel Caps on a Ragwing
The FAA will not accept DER paperwork from another aircraft. I've argued the point for the last year and am to the point where I need to find a DER of my own. Doesn't look like anyone here has a name, so I'll start looking at the list.
- Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Hartiwg (Monarch) Fuel Caps on a Ragwing
I would start with the DER who's name is on the other paperwork.
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Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
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Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
- 48RagwingPilot
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:28 am
Re: Hartiwg (Monarch) Fuel Caps on a Ragwing
Already did. He's retired.
Re: Hartiwg (Monarch) Fuel Caps on a Ragwing
bagarre wrote:Why can't you use the other guy's DER paperwork as a basis for your proposal?
If you have permission to use the data, I don't see the issue.
Making you get yet another DER (or even the same one) to make paperwork seems like a forced waste of money as the papers will say exactly what the other paperwork says.
Is the report marked as valid only for the previous aircraft?
Although this seems wasteful and perhaps silly... but it's a matter of "intellectual property". Like a patent, an STC or DER paperwork is intellectual property. Unless an unlimited license is authorized from the owner of that property, it cannot be used for anyone else's purposes. That is why FAA is saying what they are.
Here's an example: My second landing/taxi lighting approval was performed by a DER. He charged $500. It probably took him a day (or two) to gather the information from structural repair manuals and Cessna IPC's, and electrical studies, and FAA AC 43.13 to make himself comfortable with the mod, then to copy and type up all the paperwork and modification instructions necessary to support FAA requirements of his job. He (or his company, partners, successors/heirs, etc.) is responsible forever as to the safety and appropriateness of the work.
That paperwork specified that the engineering was applicable ONLY to my airplane by serial number. Although I have shared that paperwork with others, it is only useful for reference, not authorization to modify another airplane. The DER who performed the study is protecting his intellectual property, and unless someone is willing to contact him and get him to allow the use of the work on another serial number... the paperwork will only apply to my airplane.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.