Overhead Speaker

[GAHorn]

George, none of the helicopters I've ever flown part 135, have had a cabin speaker or a microphone. Can you explain that? Or maybe, just maybe a speaker and a microphone is not required.

My 170 does not have a speaker. It is not on my equipment list.

While the majority of us do not operate under Pt 135, FAR 135.165 (para f) requires that aircraft operating (under IFR) have two microphones and two headsets or one headset and one speaker. I'll bet your specific operation has an exemption, or you have two headsets, or... it's recognized that helicopters are not aircraft.

I copied and pasted the TSO reference directly from a google search, and although not relying upon that as the primary msg in my posting, I thought it interesting so copied/pasted it. It was from faa.gov but I do not see it in the TSO David posted either. Perhaps I copied the particular TSO-number incorrectly or out-of-context, .... but the sentence copied implies a "voice message" will be issued. All ADS-B installations might not have "voice messages".
I looked back at my "google search" and do not see the reference.

The specific ADS-B solution chosen by each operator will likely differ, but some may require a cabin speaker and that is why I posted that comment (taken directly from faa.gov also.) If your Equipt List has no speaker listed then it does not have to be operational. BUT....that comment relies upon a complete/correct list. Many MELs are incomplete and the speaker was included in original equipment lists which have been improperly replicated (leaving the speaker off the list without an approval basis.) If your original Equipt LIst (from Cessna, or from a previous avionics installation) should have included the speaker as an item, then it must be either operational, or removed under some basis of approval, unless you have a MEL specifically assigned to your aircraft allowing it's inoperative status.

My intent in the previous post was not to insist that all aircraft must have a speaker. It was intended to suggest that good operating practices consider the safety features of either a speaker, or a suitable substitute (such as a separately-wired, redundant headset, etc.)

[bagarre]

If current flight operations do not require a speaker, why not just mark the speaker as INOP?
Or make a simple log book entry that the speaker was removed/disconnected?

I can't imagine the hearing damage you'd get by turning up the speaker loud enough to be heard over the engine anyway.

[GAHorn]

If current flight operations do not require a speaker, why not just mark the speaker as INOP?
Or make a simple log book entry that the speaker was removed/disconnected?

I can't imagine the hearing damage you'd get by turning up the speaker loud enough to be heard over the engine anyway.

In the first instance, you'd require an approved MEL.
In the second instance, if your ops do not require a speaker (per FARs), then removal, a minor alteration, would only require a logbook entry.
(In both instances, installed equipment must either be operational in a Pt 91 aircraft, or it must have an INOP status allowed per MEL. <edit> or per 91.213(d)>

My speaker is installed/operational and heard over engine/prop noise without ultra-high volume, but headsets are certainly a better solution. (I'm sure there's a reason Cessna installed it directly above the pilot's head.)

[floatplaneflyer]

Ok back to the speaker... what does a real one (speaker) that is like hens teeth according to Bruce, look like? I took mine out to have it reconed... hopefully they can do it.

Based on the screws and holes and the evidence I think it’s the original speaker but I’m not sure.

There were 2 #8 Phillips head machine screws holding it in place with steel washers above the skin.

[c170b53]

Yes the screws went through the cabin ceiling skin and tapped into the magnet such as shown in your photo but I don't know the original supplier of the part to Cessna

[floatplaneflyer]

Jim, this speaker does match the pattern on the original aluminum “shield” as well, so I think it’s original. Those speakers were made in the early 50’s

[c170b53]

It looks really nice, at some time my speaker housing was home to some mice, the speaker was unsalvageable.

[Vertical]

I believe that the entire overhead assembly (speaker, housing, dome light, and twin red cabin lights) were removed at some point on my 55. Any reason to think it couldn't just stay that way for the foreseeable future? I don't really miss it it since my panel is well lighted, and I always wear a headlamp with a red beam at night, and there is still the aim-able spot light on the pilots door post.

For sound, the passenger headset is the backup, and the IPAD audibly notifies for alerts, traffic, terrain etc...

Old thread, but saw some fresh additions. Thoughts?

Thanks

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

floatplaneflyer, it's to hard to say whether your is original or an older replacement drilled to fit. I not seen that many hens teeth to have dimensions or a mental picture of them
Many speakers could be drilled, the key is the depth and ohms of the speaker. The speaker required of our installations is a fairly shallow cone speaker. Ohms required then and now could be different and dependent on the equipment driving the speaker. I don't recall without research, the ohms of the original but know it was not a commonly used value.

I'd say if yours fits, and apparently it does as you took it out of the space. And your current equipment can drive it, have it reconed and reinstall it if you wish.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I believe that the entire overhead assembly (speaker, housing, dome light, and twin red cabin lights) were removed at some point on my 55. Any reason to think it couldn't just stay that way for the foreseeable future?

No reason it can't stay as it is.

[floatplaneflyer]

I believe that the entire overhead assembly (speaker, housing, dome light, and twin red cabin lights) were removed at some point on my 55. Any reason to think it couldn't just stay that way for the foreseeable future? I don't really miss it it since my panel is well lighted, and I always wear a headlamp with a red beam at night, and there is still the aim-able spot light on the pilots door post.

Not to ignite debate but my mechanic who is very learned said that If it was equipment with the plane when it left the factory it needs to work. I’m not a super originality buff but if mine turns out to be original I want to keep it.

Btw, Jim, the reason it looks “nice” is I sand blasted it. Was rusted and decrepid.

-Harmon

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Not to ignite debate but my mechanic who is very learned said that If it was equipment with the plane when it left the factory it needs to work.

Your mechanic probably was over simplifying the statement. There are lots of things that can legally be removed from an airplane and they may not be the same in every airplane. What needs to be in the plane depends on FARs, ADs, TCDS, approved modifications and a few other things I've probably forgotten.

Taken at face your mechanics statement as you quoted it is not true. If the airplane has an approved MEL, those things that are listed on the MEL that are not required, do not have to work for example. And it has nothing to do with whether it left the factory with it or it was added later. Yes those things inoperative need to be documented and likely placarded accordingly.

[GAHorn]

I believe that is incorrect, Bruce. If (on a pt 91 airplane) it is installed...it.must be operational UNLESS an approved MEL is availab le for THAT serial number. I.E>, if it’s installed: It MUST be operational. An example of this matter is ADS-B. ONe cannot disable if willy-milly. If installed, it MUST be operational and turned ON.

If the speaker does not owrk, it must be removed and the MEL updated. If an approved MEL is not available, it must be operational.

<edit> This statement is not correct for non-commercial operators. I’ve operated in commercial too long, I guess.
Pt 91.213(d) allows certain non-operational equipment to be deferred for Pt 91 operations.
A good example for instance is: If you are operating under day, VFR in uncontrolled airspace you do not need a radio therefore you do not need a speaker. But if you are operating IFR and need a radio, and if your audio system requires a speaker then it must be operational. If you have a headset then you can defer the speaker but must disable it and placard it “INOP”. The complicating factor is: How do you disable it? If a simple method to do that is not available then it becomes a complex operation that requires an A&P and signoff. Hopefully you have a cockpit switch you can use and placard.

[MoonlightVFR]

25+ Years ago - Mice are my speaker Cone

Was taking Instrument instruction - deteriorated - Instructor complained

Had it rec coned - Extremely difficult to do the research and locate a company that did the refurbish.

Cannot remember who did the magic.

Had to put great effort to become IFR rated.

[Vertical]

Hmmm. The "Loudspeaker" (no mention of dome or spot lights) is listed on my original 55 equipment list. At weight of 3lbs to boot. It is not listed as required. No idea if there is a logbook entry for its removal somewhere. I think I'll leave this one be.