Insurance

[GAHorn]

....,they keep me sane].

You’re SANE..??? !!!

[bgiesbrecht]

Mine increased by 20%.

[ghostflyer]

ME. Sane?? Nah!! It’s a good act though, look who I associate with .

[IA DPE]

My insurance is due for renewal. Since I installed new avionics this year, and because asking prices for the few available 170s are quite high, I wanted to increase my Hull Value. I asked to increase to $73k. Butler Brown told me their Underwriter would only increase it to $60k because of “Blue Book Values.”

Anyone else had trouble with getting reasonable hull values? I don’t want to be underinsured…

[GAHorn]

A couple decades ago I asked for an increase the Hull (from $45K to $70K) on my B-model and the underwriter wanted justification because the “Blue Book” didn’t support my suggestion…. so I detailed the condition of the airplane item by item and it was approved. (It helps if you’ve won a judging-award at one of our conventions.) Considering recent jump in values maybe I should bump it up again….

Take a few pictures showing your airplanes’ best features that support your request and submit them might help. Has your wiring harness been totally renewed with modern mil-spec wire? Fuses replaced with C.B.s? Fresh interior? Fresh paint? Avionics upgraded? Do you have some comparisons to offer?

The Blue Book is supposed to reflect reported recent sales…. but it’s not difficult to convince them that the Blue Book has NO REPORTED SALES of 170s for the last two decades.

(Maybe we should start our own sales-records reference-book.)

[falco]

I have had $65K Hull on my airplane for many years with Avemco. ('54 with Continental IO-360) In my last conversation with them I mentioned the current trend in 170 values. They upped the hull to $75K over the phone for no increase in premium, could go higher with an appraisal. (and higher premium) In the current market, it is worth more than that.

Where does one get an appraisal on a nearly 70 year old airplane for which there is nothing in the bluebook?

Pete

[GAHorn]

There are people and businesses that claim to be “Aircraft Appraisers” and there is at least one company that claims to “train and certify” aircraft appraisers. About 15 years ago one of our Members asked me to come help him test-fly his airplane which had been in a long period of modifications (bag door, gear legs, 175 tanks, Lycoming engine, etc etc) and he was not current for his insurance. That test-flight ended in a near-emergency with partially-deployed and jammed flaps. (Flap-track attachment improperly installed.) The next week he asked me to “appraise” his airplane because he wanted to increase his hull coverage. He mentioned that he himself was a “certified aircraft appraiser” but that his insurance company would not accept his appraisal of his own aircraft. He then offered (as additional equipment he wanted included in an appraisal”) a spare engine and certain aircraft part spares. He suggested he expected an appraisal in the vicinity of $125-$140K. My opinion of the quality of the modifications was negative, so I must admit that I never responded because I could not figure out how to help him obtain such a high valuation and could not imagine how to refuse to undertake the appraisal without controversy.

I tell that in order to explain why I hold a personal opinion that people who claim to be “certified aircraft appraisers” remind me of mail-order preacher-ordination certificates and the online “university” degrees that can be purchased. The Blue Book is notoriously out-dated on used aircraft especially with regard to classic aircraft such as our 170s which are not commonly handled by brokers who “may” share value information about the types aircraft they deal. Aircraft “appraisals” are only worth what the credibility of the appraiser can warrant. Virtually none of them (“appraisers”) have pertinent/intimate experience with Cessna 170 aircraft, recent market-experience of multiple examples of the model or those traded-values…and that makes their appraisals without much merit, IMO.

[falco]

Perhaps I should ask Avemco who's appraisal they would accept.
I haven't seen any purchase price data on 170s lately, only occasional asking prices. But I suspect an undamaged, well documented, reasonably clean 170B with a bigger engine would sell for a fair bit more than the $75K hull insurance I have.

Pete

[GAHorn]

Perhaps I should ask Avemco who's appraisal they would accept.
I haven't seen any purchase price data on 170s lately, only occasional asking prices. But I suspect an undamaged, well documented, reasonably clean 170B with a bigger engine would sell for a fair bit more than the $75K hull insurance I have.

Pete

Consider responding to the thread in “Members Intercom” regarding this matter….it might result in a change of this situation: viewtopic.php?f=27&p=147264#p147264

[Joe Moilanen]

Never thought I'd see the day...but the base price on a new 172 is 432K. Never thought I'd live this long...

Joe
4518C

[GAHorn]

Never thought I'd see the day...but the base price on a new 172 is 432K. Never thought I'd live this long...

Joe
4518C

TEN TIMES what I paid two years ago for a 172-C model that is essentially the same airplane.

[falco]

Never thought I'd see the day...but the base price on a new 172 is 432K. Never thought I'd live this long...

Joe
4518C

There are new Cubs selling for north of $400k. With a year long wait lists even for the ugly one with the wheels on backward. You can get a decent house for that in most parts of this country.

not here though, California real estate prices help make airplane costs look more reasonable

[brianm]

Just renewed my insurance. For $1mil/100k on a $30k hull I was quoted $868. That's about $20 less than last year, despite increasing the hull somewhat. Commercial and instrument rated with 585 TT, 285 TW, and 245 hours in the 170.

It's that time of year again. With the hull upped to $35k and having earned my CFI, next year's premium comes to $859. Saved a whole nine dollars. I did change insurers through. My previous insurer wanted $1029.

[GAHorn]

Feel free to mention your insurance providers by Name! (It will likely be helpful to others who are shopping.)

[brianm]

My previous insurer was Old Republic. Their quote this year was a 9% increase over last year for the same coverage. My new insurer is Global Aerospace. The Bullock Agency in St Charles, IL is the agency I use, they have done a great job of running down quotes and answering my questions over the years.

For comparison purposes, I'm a CFI, 750 hours total time, 340 tailwheel, 315 in the 170, and 39 years old.