Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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walloceans
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Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by walloceans »

Hi Guys- Just reporting that I finally got around to getting life back into Cessna 170A #18991. Back in the 90's she was flying with a Franklin conversion and the engine threw a rod. The owner pilot was near enough to home field to make it back but he landed long, went off the far end and flipped onto back in a shallow swamp. Only damage by then was engine and top of the rudder and V. Stabilizer. However- then the rescuers arrived: As often happens then the real damage started- all the comings and going tramped down on the underside of the wings . I bought the wreck for its fuselage but saved everything.
Only yesterday did I get around to firing up the old bird with a C-145 from a different wreck. Hasn't run in 20 years!
I prelubed everything and checked the plugs, etc, then cranked it over with plugs out, got oil moving around. Tied the tailwheel to the lamp post. :) Hooked up fuel tank (no wings attached) and checked for leaks. Even the fuel valve worked. And the primer. Mags on Both and after a few blades it coughed once. 4 more shots of prime and it fired off and ran nicely giving good oil pressure, etc. Idled at 650 but I never ran it much above 1000rpm. Checked for leaks. All good. Maybe need to "Flash" the generator? Cheers to all and many thanks for all the old wisdom found here on the Forum.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Be very careful. The CG with the wings removed isn't what you might think. I had a Cub with the wings removed. Was periodically starting the engine to help preserve it while I recovered the wings. One day the engine came to life with just a bit more power than I anticipated and quickly quit but the blast was enough to pull the fuselage up on it's nose. Just enough prop damage to warrant an engine teardown. :cry:

Play it safe. Tie the tail down to the ground to keep the tail wheel where you want it and the prop with ground clearance.
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walloceans
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by walloceans »

Hi Bruce- yes I am aware of the CG. No tail feathers or wings. I can pick up the tail with one hand. I mentioned I tied it to the lamp post. :)
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

walloceans wrote: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:58 am Hi Bruce- yes I am aware of the CG. No tail feathers or wings. I can pick up the tail with one hand. I mentioned I tied it to the lamp post. :)
Yes, I noted you tied it to a lamp post. I do that all the time to prop my Vagabond, but I'm just trying to be sure the plane doesn't take off without me as no one is at the controls. Tying the tail down so the fuselage doesn't rotate about the wheels on to the nose could be different than I'd tie to a lamp post to prop the engine. Glad you realize there is a significant CG change without the wings and most certainly without the tail feathers.
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walloceans
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by walloceans »

Yep, I get it. I made sure the rope could not pull UP the post and that it was not too long. Having moved this fuselage around alot by hand rolling on the mains I was quite aware of how light it is at the tail. For the same reason chocking the wheels might lead to disaster! I was trying to be really careful and methodical in the startup process not wanting to find myself making one step ahead and two steps back. :roll:

What do you think about flashing the generator? It's been a long time. On startup I did not see the ammeter move but I did not go above 1200 RPM and only that for a few seconds for throttle/carb response check. Next is to get the tail together. Cheers and thanks again/ Bob Wallace
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Depending on your regulator, you won't see any appreciable power being made at 1200 rpm. Probably need 15-1600 rpm for 5 or 10 seconds to be able to diagnose whats going on. My regulator was tweaked by my partner who had been doing it since his days on the farm and garage in the 50s when folks really knew these systems well. We had life about 1200 rpm but you really had to be looking for it with a voltmeter not the amp meter. our volts may have been just over 12 but wouldn't rise to a point we'd see 13 or more till 13-1400 rpm.

You won't hurt anything flashing the generator whether it needs it or not.
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walloceans
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by walloceans »

Further to "Awakening": This is C 170A # 18991. It had been flipped on its back after a too long landing ( not me) after engine threw a rod and ended up in a swamp. Only damage was to top of rudder and V. stab but also one wing damaged by the rescuers walking on it. So now back to work in the hangar- It's winter up here in Mass. but not too bad. Got inside work now. I have gone over all the tail feathers and am ordering new bolts and nuts for everything. Got the trim tab mechanism to sort out. Also cleaning out the whole fuselage inside while I have all the panels off. Will be installing a tail lift handle while I can climb down inside the tail cone. Lots of fun/ Cheers/ Bob W.
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walloceans
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by walloceans »

HI Guys- Getting ready to put things together I put a pair of wing struts together and found !- They are left and right (OK) and 2.-one is 3/4" longer than the other! So what gives?
I have 3 Cessna 170A models: # 1 was complete but damaged in a ground loop. # 2 was disassembled after back flip before I got it, and #3 was complete but damaged when a hangar collapsed on it. All the struts were OK. I am reassembling #2 but discovered two struts unequal. Anybody have an explanation?
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cessnut
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by cessnut »

Probably a B model strut. They are slightly longer, can't remember exactly how much.
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n2582d
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by n2582d »

See this thread.
Gary
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walloceans
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by walloceans »

Thanks, Guys- I was thinking one came from a B model. A quick measurement bolthole to bolt hole showed about 3/4" difference between struts. I think I have seen that A model dihedral is 1 degree while B model is 3 degrees so there's the difference. Got it sorted now.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

walloceans wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:38 pm Thanks, Guys- I was thinking one came from a B model. A quick measurement bolthole to bolt hole showed about 3/4" difference between struts. I think I have seen that A model dihedral is 1 degree while B model is 3 degrees so there's the difference. Got it sorted now.
We always refer to the A model as having no dihedral. Wether it is 0° or 1° is not material. It is less than a B model and looks as flat as it could be specially went compared from the front with an A next to a B.
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GAHorn
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Re: Restarting a Sleeping Beauty (170A)

Post by GAHorn »

From the Rigging Instructions authored by Tom Hall:
CLICK to ENLARGE
CLICK to ENLARGE
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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