Availability of Parts

[G-MDAY]

Hi All,

Just by way of introduction, I am now the New Owner of a 170B 1954 and in a bit of a bind.
Unfortunately not living in the US put's me a a bit of a disadvantage regarding parts supply
for the plane. Rather than an extensive search of Textron for availability of parts:

Can anyone here save me that and answer a few simple questions please:

Q1 Some of the 172 parts will fit and are still made by textron and can be supplied for the 170B is this correct?
Q2 Which parts are not available from Textron ie specifically for the 170B, and if not, can they be found with 8130/Form1s

Many thanks for your help
Happy Holidays
Paul
New owner of
Serial Number 26350 ex N2807C
Now G-MDAY one of 9 in the UK/Ireland

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Paul, in '56 170s and 172s where made on the same line with the same parts. As the 172 evolved more and more fuselage parts changed to different parts than those that would fit a 170. The basic wing structure however changed very little till today. So if you are looking for wing parts, Textron may still make them. Probably not so much anything else. Don't forget the L-19 which was also made of 170 parts. But of course it evolved as well but some parts ie vertical and horizontal stabilizer, elevator and rudder as well as wing parts can be the same.

[G-MDAY]

Thank you Bruce for that, so it looks like a huge divergence for fuselage and other parts from the 172
That leaves really only the used market for availability is that correct ?

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Thank you Bruce for that, so it looks like a huge divergence for fuselage and other parts from the 172
That leaves really only the used market for availability is that correct ?

The used market is likely the source you can find the most parts but you'd be surprised what you can find NOS with time and digging. First thing to do is get the part number for the part you are looking for. Google search it not only to see if you get a hit for the part but for any part numbers the part might have been superseded to. You can also collect links to or down load the 172 and L-19 IPC so you can see if they might have a part that looks like what your looking for. Part of the digging includes coming here and posting an add in the TradeMart available to members.

[cessnut]

A surprising number of parts are still available at Textron. However, it can be difficult to sort it out without a Textron account because many of the numbers have been superseded. If you need ARCs, that will be difficult for used parts, especially since probably not many repair stations will obtain a UK certificate when they stop accepting FAA 8130s.

[GAHorn]

Thank you Bruce for that, so it looks like a huge divergence for fuselage and other parts from the 172
That leaves really only the used market for availability is that correct ?

WELCOME Paul !!

WHERE exactly are you and the “aeroplane” located ? Since you have the airplane registered with an “N” registration… the maintenance rules will be much simpler/easier for you. Also, since you have one of the later “B”- models…that will also prove to make parts more available.

What specific parts are concerning ? … or are you discussing the topic in a “general” sense..?

[G-MDAY]

Hi Bruce,

I’m based in Northern Ireland registered as a C of A aircraft as G-MDAY

Basis of my question is continued maintenance here in the UK/ Ireland, we have a very small number of 170s
I think 9 in total so parts availability could be a significant issue. I’ve signed up to the Textron parts service
But not sure that their cost base and mine are totally compatible.

Be much better situation if I could avail of used parts, but that then creates a situation that they’ll need a Form 1 or 8130
Knowledge so far seems that some parts are available from Textron for ? Wings aircraft using L19/172 and cross referencing
From the IPC of the 170 not ideal but probably doable in a bind.

Bigger question probably is What’s not available? I Understand that this is a difficult question I believe that the 0300 no longer has crankshafts available and some tail section parts for the 170 are only available from Third party suppliers these are the things I’m interested in if I need a widget ….. does this have the potential of knocking the aircraft out of action for perhaps an indefinite period
Or potentially restrict flying of the aircraft ever ?

I really don’t want the latter to be the case, it took me a long time to get my 170, I had thought it was out of reach but Lady Luck smiled on me. I’d like to keep her in tip top shape so as I can eek out the remainder of my flying days hence my questions.

[GAHorn]

O300 crankshafts: The early 8-bolt cranks used on the A, B engines are sometimes difficult to locate, but the later C,D,E cranks are the same as in the TCM IO-360 engines and are current mfr.

There aren’t many airframe parts that cannot be found in airworthy condition. It’s a “daydream” exercise to imagine this thing as a mechanical device which requires an assembly-line of spare parts to be available. The airplane is sufficiently common and simple that most parts can be located or manufactured / fabricated.

Your location and registration may complicate things for you should you find you need only OEM parts with documentation, due to CAA regulations (the reason many aircraft outside the U.S. are kept on the FAA-registry which is more lenient regarding owner-produced-parts, and A&P inspection-for-airworthiness suitability.) But generally, your 170 B will be easily maintained with good parts availability, one of the attractive things about this model.

How you store your airplane will greatly affect continued airworthiness. For example, one complicated and uncommon mechanism is the rear bulkhead upon which the elevator bellcrank is mounted. If the airplane is stored outdoors and the flight controls not properly secured …if the elevator is allowed to “bang about” the bellcrank-forces can cause cracking of the bulkhead, and the bell-crank itself is a double-fitted/rivetted stamping not commonly available…. (Flight Controls and cabin doors should be properly restrained during storage and when left unattended outdoors, and Never use the dorsal-fin/fairing to push the rear of the airplane around sideways)….or the operator is careless about handling the aircraft/empennage/elevator….the bulkhead can develop cracks from the elevator being “slammed” about. This can be a troublesome repair not only for it’s accessibility but also the rarity of parts. It’s not impossible…but it’s not a failure one would want visited upon themselves.

IMG_3348.png

Empennage leading edges are often damaged from careless handling / impacts and can be scarce, but a B-model can often use parts from the L-19.

The rudder bellcrank assembly is often found cracked or corroded, but new manufacture can be found from suppliers such as Univair and Aircraft Spruce as well as L-19 suppliers like Air Repair, Inc.

IMG_3346.png

One reason the rudder and bellcrank can be damaged is improper securing… and that is not provided-for by Cessna in any convenient way. One method NOT to be used: Do not use the top/rudder counter-balance area to hold it to the vertical fin/stabilizer, as doing so can damage the lightly-constructed counterbalance and twist the rudder.

IMG_3349.jpeg

Also, do not wedge anything at that bellcrank because the large surface area of the rudder will place excessive forces upon the hinge-area of the rudder.


(If you look closely at the background of the above-pic you can see how another airplane has locked it’s ailerons. This is a common method that many use. However this method requires diligence because the Manual Flap Mechanism has great mechanical advantage…and if the aileron locks are not removed beforehand and the flap are activated during preflight they can damage the ailerons and/or the locks themselves.)

The seat belt can be used to hold the yoke aft-and-to one-side to lock the elevator and ailerons….just slip it thru the yoke and pull it back snug.


A search of these forums will show the methods that hold the rudder by the trailing edge / nav-light structure and secure it to the outer horiz-stabiliser or similar. This is how I do it… Others do it similarly using a leather “bra” at the nav light…. Either is good.

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And keep all those small hinge-bearings properly lubricated. While they are still available, they are not often available from Textron but from other suppliers….and under different part-names/numbers. Cross-referencing and locating a “CAA-approved” supplier might be troublesome. (U.S. registered airplanes can often use commercially available sources that G-registrations may not.)

Anyway, don’t become too worried about parts availability. The Members and participants of this Assoc’n are a resource that can likely assist in any parts you might need to locate. Again, Welcome!

(and post some pictures!)

[dstates]

Congrats on getting your 170!

Here is a list of what I've struggled to find in my 5 years of owning a 170A. The nice thing here is that we can use owner produced parts in some situations.

-Gear leg cover rubber gasket: I ordered material and made my own.
-Fuel selector valve packing (your 170B fuel valve has better parts availability).
-Tailwheel leaf spring rubber pad: I ordered material and made my own (might be different parts for the later style tailwheel).
-Engine mount isolators. I haven't found any yet. Every place has them on back order. They all say they will get them in a month, but they have been saying that for 6 months now.
-M010 main bearing set: I was lucky and found a NOS set. Parts store say they will eventually get some.
-Elevator tip leading edge: was able to purchase L-19 leading edge and cut to length.

Really the only thing that has stumped me so far are the engine mount isolators. I do believe all of the parts stores are still planning to get some, just don't know when. I have been impressed with the availability of new parts from many sources for my 73 year old airplane.

Then there are things like starters, if you can't find a shop to rebuild your starter there are STC's for many items to replace the original designs. Off the top of my head there are things like exhausts, wheels & brakes, starters, generators, engines, avionics, windshields, etc.

I'd also recommend having purchasing some door latch springs from Bruce as you never know when you will need it. Having one saved me the night before a long trip.

Get familiar with searching all the shops when looking for parts. Here is a good list to start with.

-Cessna (and distributors like https://yinglingaviation.com/aircraft-parts/)
-Univair (https://www.univair.com/)
-Aircraft Spruce (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/)
-Air Power (www.airpowerinc.com)
-Aircraft Specialties (https://www.aircraftspecialties.aero/) -engines
-McFarlane (https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/)
-Preferred Air Parts (https://www.preferredairparts.com/)
-Air Repair (https://airrepairinc.com/) - L19 parts
-J&J Airparts (https://www.jjairparts.com/) - engines
-Bun Air Parts (https://www.bunairparts.com/)
-Fresno Air Parts (https://www.fresnoairpartsco.com/) - engine parts
-Ebay (www.ebay.com)
-Airforms (https://airforms.biz/)

There are also a lot of used parts companies (salvage yards):
-BAS Part Sales (www.baspartsales.com) - used parts
-Texas Air Salvage (www.texasairsalvage.com)
-Wentworth Aircraft (www.wentworthaircraft.com)
-Sutton Aircraft (www.suttonaircraft.com)
-Air Salvage of Dallas (www.asod.com)
-Skywagon City (www.skywagoncity.com)


Have fun with your 170!

[G-MDAY]

Thank you ….. really thank you for your answers that is so warming that you took the time to help me out.
Such great information and so informative. Now taking your answers forward I may be able to ask permission of the
UK CAA to allow the aircraft to become a Permit Aircraft in the UK, which will be like you guys being able to use used
Sourced parts and fabricate parts where necessary. There are some downsides once transferred it can’t go back and it may effect
The Value …. Currently as a CofA aircraft I can sell throughout the entire world, if I was going too. As a UK permit aircraft it can only really be sold in the UK. Thankfully I’m hoping to hold onto G-MDAY till my flying days are over hopefully I may have 15 if I’m lucky much less if I’m not My wife can deal with it then lots of work to do but I’ll take my time just put Tail pull handles in and a new TRIG Transponder with ADSB now looking at the dresser 8.50 x 6 4ply here there £1337 pounds complete with tubes that’s for 2 thankfully …. Anyway guys thank you again for your fantastic answers to my questions if your ever in Ireland or (Northern Ireland ) be sure to look me up … Kind regards and Happy Holidays Paul

[G-MDAY]

Some images for you guys thanks again

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[GAHorn]

Paul, there is one other tidbit of tribal-knowledge that might prove useful when searching for parts that may interchange between models…
Cessna commonly utilized parts blueprints/drawing numbers to create part-identification numbers… So a Cessna 170 part (being the fifth in-line of then-current production) might carry a number of 05 followed by the actual part number 12345 becoming 0512345 … and the Identical part fitted to a C180 or an L-19 etc might be 0612345.
This is not true in Every Case…but is a common occurrence and can prove useful when searching for replacement parts.

[Kevin Pearce]

Hi Paul,
I recently also heard that it might be possible to put the 170 onto a LAA Permit. Your other choice would be to put it back onto the N reg.
The advantage of keeping on a G reg is the Pilot Medical Declaration.
It’s great to see that to you are enjoying your 170.
Kevin

[G-MDAY]

Hi Kevin,
Yes the LAA permit may well be my option as it has the potential to
Allow a similar level of allowable interference with regards parts and
Maintenance going forward. Also I’m a LAA member and have had Permit aircraft
In the past so I’m pretty familiar with the system. We’ll see how that goes?

[pdb]

Paul,

I flew in your plane years ago when it was owned by Martin Day. Please say hello the next time you see him.,

Pete Brown
Anchorage, Alaska

PS: Sutton Air Parts noted above is an excellent source for 179 parts. I can check out items there first you if you would like.