Sport Pilot CFI limits and FAA inFO 26006

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Since MOSAIC all that is needed to fly a 170 or 172 and many other airplanes is a Sport Pilot rating and a valid state drivers license. There are restrictions of the Sport Pilot certificate vs a Private Certificate or higher but that is not the purpose of this thread. The restrictions are a Sport Pilot must have at least 3 miles visibility in all airspace, a visible horizon and can't fly at night. There are Sport Pilot CFIs as well. These are folks holding only a Sport Pilot certificate that have also received the Sport Pilot CFI certificate and they are listed under 14 CFR Part 61 - Subpart K . A Sport Pilot CFI can only give instruction or review to the limit of their rating. Since MOSAIC there had been a question, what does this mean.

Hardly ever discussed is that there are a lot of pilots with a Private or higher certificate who are exercising the privileges of a Sport Pilot by using their drivers license as their medical. I am one. I have an ATP Heli, Comm Multi AIrplane, CFII Heli, CFII Airplane and I have tail wheel sign off. I can not qualify for a medical, can't use Basic Med and so I'm left using my drivers license and being limited to Sport Pilot restrictions.

The attached FAA inFO 26006 was issued to explain what limits a person with only a Sport Pilot certificate with CFI certificate can do and the limits of their authority. The letter states that for example a Sport Pilot CFI can only indorse a Private pilot to the limits of the Sport Pilot privileges on a flight review. So this Private pilot could not fly with less than 3 miles visibility, must have a visible horizon and can't fly at night until that Private Pilot has a flight review within the preceding 24 months endorsed by a CFI holding a Comm certificate using Basic Med or higher medical.

So far kind of makes sense. But here is where this letter goes wrong in my opinion. The letter says that a CFI holding a certificate other that a Sport Pilot certificate is a subpart H CFI. This is me. The letter says that § 61.413 also limits subpart K CFIs who are exercising the privileges of a Sport Pilot to the same as a subpart K CFI.

I disagree. 14 CFR Part 61 - Subpart K -§ 61.413 says nothing of the sort. It discusses CFI's with a Sport Pilot rating only. No mention of CFIs under subpart H at all.

What am I missing here.

A current class medical has never been a restriction to exercising the privileges of a CFI. Prior to MOSAIC I could not be Pilot in Command unless flying a Sport Pilot qualified aircraft while training, endorsement, or checking any rated pilot. But so long as the pilot being reviewed had a flight review in the last 24 months, they are PIC while I conduct a review and my endorsement never had any restrictions.

InFO26006.pdf

[GAHorn]

Bruce, If I understand your point….. I think the “rub” comes due to the validity of the CFI-certificate being based upon the privileges of the Pilot-Certificate to which it is validated. I.E. “Valid only when accompanied by Pilot Cert such-and-such..” …so the limitations of the pilot cert applies also to the CFI.

The example of the Private Pilot being reviewed by the Sport CFI… it seems incongruous to me that the Private Pilot be restricted to day and 3 s.m. viz ….is ridiculous…. Because, as an example, When I administer a flight-review…I do it in daylight …and the night-time restriction does not apply to the Private Pilot applicant. His night privileges are based upon his night-currency only. The flight-review did not require the CFI to administer it at night.

Am I missing something..?

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George, as you and I know a flight review can be administered any time. There is no restriction. However I'd bet 99.9 are administered during the day. I'm not sure I like the fact a Sport Pilot CFI can't give a unrestricted review to any higher certified pilot but I at least see some logic in it. But you are right, the restriction, in reality, probably makes no sense either.

What I am upset about is that according to this inFO letter, ALL CFIs like me who are operating using a drivers license as their medical are also restricted from making a restriction free endorsement. And the letter claims it is because 14 CFR Part 61 - Subpart K -§ 61.413 says subpart H CFI's (that's me), restricts us.

And my other point is, until this letter, a subpart H CFI privileges were never before dependent on a valid medical at all, so long as the CFI was not breaking any other FAR by operation without valid medical. I was never a PIC unless I was flying, a aircraft that meet the Sport Pilot rule now gone, nor was I ever part of required crew.

Quite frankly I think this letter is in error saying that a subpart H CFI operating using a drivers license as a medical require an endorsement to have restrictions. How about I decide I'm not using my drivers license and exercising Sport Pilot privileges while I give a flight review to a Private pilot before his flight review runs out so he is PIC like I've done for the last 6 years.

[GAHorn]

It might be helpful / useful to visit with AOPA legal and FAA-OKC on this. It won’t be the first time FAA err’d.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Yes, I'm waiting till they are all home from Sun N Fun.

George, or anyone. Did you read 14 CFR Part 61 - Subpart K -§ 61.413? Does it say anywhere in that part the subpart H CFIs using a drivers license for a medical (exorcising Sport Pilot privileges) must issue a restricted endorsement as the letter claims?

And like I said, what if a subpart H CFI keeps his CFI current and lets his medical laps and gives flight reviews to current Private or higher pilots. They would not be exorcising Sport Pilot privileges. Must they also now issue restricted endorsements. No. I think the FAA forgot you don't need a medical to exorcise some privileges of a subpart K CFI certificate.

[GAHorn]

I actually had not completely read the inFO letter you posted, Bruce, until just now. A question I have for you:
Do you still hold your original/previous pilot certificate..? …and are you merely operating aircraft under “Sport” limitations because you are using your drivers lic. for medical?
(i.e., you never surrendered your pilot certs)

If so: It did not appear (to me) that the CF) w/Sport Privileges Only would apply to you …or to the endorsements you issue.
My Reasoning: You are not restricted from endorsing an ATP pilot a flight-review in his personally owned 172 at night. HE is the PIC, not you…and He is not violating his limitations….AS long as…his prior flight review status has not expired.

(I ran into this when I applied for my seaplane rating.)

I was using the seaplane upgrade in lieu of a flight revier.
However, I overlooked the fact my flight review status had expired. Therefore, for the check-ride, I could not act as PIC….therefore could not operate the flight…. UNLESS the examiner were willing to perform as PIC during the ride. (fortunately, he was and did)
The only exception to that rule is if the Applicant is a Student Pilot. IN that case only, FARs allow the check to continue.

Seems silly, but it involves “liability” issues.

Anyway, for convenience of others, here’s a link I found to the FARs regarding the subject at hand:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14 ... /subpart-K

14 CFR § 61.303 Endorsement Requirements

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/61.303

14 CFR § 61.315 - privileges and limits of sport pilot certificate

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/61.315

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George, I would NEVER willingly surrender my certificates. And I've kept my CFI current. I was never denied a medical. They expired. I would be denied with no hope of a special. This is why I can't use Basic Med, because I'd have to get a special for another reason than the one that would get me denied. If I want to fly other than ultra lights, my only choice is using my drivers license exorcising Sport Pilot privileges.

This is the paragraph of the letter that I, a subpart H CFI, think says I now fall under the same restrictions as a subpart K CFI (a CFI with only a Sport Pilot certificate).

Furthermore, § 61.413 imposes the same limitations on flight instructors holding a certificate under subpart H who choose to exercise sport pilot rating privileges under subpart K. Any training, endorsement, or checking provided to a pilot by a flight instructor holding a certificate under subpart H who is exercising sport pilot rating privileges (subpart K), regardless of the pilot certificate level held by the pilot, will also be limited to sport pilot privileges under subpart J.

The problem is § 61.413 doesn't say this. And I don't think subpart J does either.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Following up. Just got of the phone with AOPA. I ask the specialist who answered if he was familiar with the FAA inFO 26006 letter with cam out 4/10/26, 7 days ago. He was not but quickly brought it up and scanned it. He said since MOSAIC they and others have been asking for some guidance to questions regarding Sport Pilots those with a CFI issued under subpart K and this was apparently it. To the best of his knowledge I was the first to bring it to their attention. While I was on the phone he said he had sent it out to al the other specialists at AOPA.

He asked me what my my questions were about it and it told him as I have already previously done here. Basically it appeared from the letter that I as a subpart H CFI would have to restrict any endorsements I made no matter the rating of the person I was endorsing. And that I thought neither of the FAAs sources of this requirement actually said that I was restricted.

He totally agreed with me. He said that their group would have to study this letter but if appeared the FAA missed all the bases trying to answer the questions they had and created more that did not exist.

He was the one that brought up that a CFI certificate is not tied to any type of medical, in fact the privileges can be exorcized under certain conditions with no medical at all. He and I think the author of this letter did not take this under consideration at all.

He assured me the AOPA team would be studying this letter and making their DC group aware of the issues to address with the FAA.

In the mean time this is only an info letter and is not regulatory. However he said it does give a clue as to what the authors for the FAA thinks the regulations say.

More to come I'm sure

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Well that was fast. I decided to call AOPA back. Talked to a different specialist about another question I thought I knew the answer but had never asked. He said he'd been talking to the other specialist about my earlier call. He said the intent of the FAA letter is precisely what the FAA wants regardless how the letter was written or what the regulations say or don't say.

Here is the bottom line. The FAA says that the regulations say that I as a subpart H CFI, while exorcising the privileges of a Sport Pilot by using my drivers license as my medical, can only make an endorsement with Sport Pilot limitations. If I'm not exorcising the privileges of a Sport Pilot to do training or endorsements, then my endorsements don't have to have restrictions.

What does this craziness mean?

Here are some but not all of the Sport Pilot restrictions that a Sport Pilot or anyone exorcizing the privileges of a Sport Pilot regardless of their higher ratings, must follow.

• (c) You may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft:
  • (4) While carrying more than one passenger.
    (5) At night, except as provided in § 61.329.
    (7) In Class B, C, and D airspace, at an airport located in Class B, C, or D airspace, and to, from, through, or at an airport having an operational control tower unless you have met the requirements specified in § 61.325.
    (10) In a passenger-carrying airlift sponsored by a charitable organization.
    (11) At an altitude of more than 10,000 feet MSL or 2,000 feet AGL, whichever is higher.
    (12) When the flight or surface visibility is less than 3 statute miles.
    (13) Without visual reference to the surface.

So if I'm giving a flight review to a Private pilot who's flight review has lapsed, he can not be PIC. But his aircraft qualifies under MOSAIC as one I can be PIC by exorcizing Sport Pilot privileges. My endorsement must include a statement that this Private Pilot flight review is restricted to the limitations of subpart J. Essentially, that Private Pilot becomes a Sport Pilot subject to those restrictions until he has another flight review with a subpart H CFI not exorcizing the privileges of a Sport Pilot.

I called AOPA back for the 3rd time in one day. And ran this scenario by them.

Once this Private Pilot from my earlier scenario has my endorsement with restrictions, he can be PIC of his aircraft, though limited. He can serve as PIC and he and I can jump right back in to his aircraft and I can give him another flight review and another endorsement with no restrictions. I could do this with a tail wheel endorsement and a few other things probably I haven't thought of.

The AOPA guy said he could think of no reason why I couldn't do this.

Are we having fun yet?

The last AOPA guy did tell me that my earlier phone call has prompted a meeting with all the AOPA specialist so they can hash this all out and hopefully they will see the wisdom in lobbying the FAA to see the regulations in a different light and maybe drop some of this silliness. He said what prompted this letter was there was a large flight school that was employing Sport Pilot subpart K CFIs training and endorsing Private Pilot students for their rating. The FAA wanted to put a stop to it because there is a significant difference in the training and experience between a subpart K CFI and a subpart H CFI. And what the FAA came up with, as it often does, answers questions that were never asked and we didn't need the answers.

[cessnut]

That's why I'm not a CFI. I want no part in casting out spirits.

[GAHorn]

Thanks for keeping us “in the loop” on this Bruce.

As I wrote earlier, (not that my opinion carries any weight anywhere)… bottom line is: As long as You are not acting as the PIC during the flight-review…then Subpart K Sport Pilot limitations are not part of the endorsement of a pilot who possesses a Private Pilot cert (or higher).

So if a rated pilot (non Sport) has not exceeded the 24 mos since his last review…..then no restrictions are made to the endorsement. Whew.

(All this reminds me I have a flight-review coming up…. Anyone a CFI near central Texas feeling brave enough to go up with me?)

This also reminds me we should start including flight-reviews on Airport Day at conventions.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Thanks for keeping us “in the loop” on this Bruce.

As I wrote earlier, (not that my opinion carries any weight anywhere)… bottom line is: As long as You are not acting as the PIC during the flight-review…then Subpart K Sport Pilot limitations are not part of the endorsement of a pilot who possesses a Private Pilot cert (or higher).

So if a rated pilot (non Sport) has not exceeded the 24 mos since his last review…..then no restrictions are made to the endorsement. Whew.

Correct.
But if his Flight review expired. We do a Flight Review and I make a restricted endorsement. Now the applicant CAN BE PIC so we jump right back in the aircraft and do another Flight Review and I make another endorsement with no restrictions.

Wonderful.

I wonder in such a case should I ask the same questions as our first hour of oral review then have them perform the same maneuvers as the first flight and see if there is a performance change?

[GAHorn]

I think this may be a sneaky way for you to charge TWICE for the review!

[ghostflyer]

I have read your dialogue with great interest and concern. We in Australia are in the throws of incorporating mosaic. I am extremely interested in your process of renewal of aviation licenses . I recently did an aviation class B medical . You filled out 10 pages on line and then attend an approved medical doctor . All went well . BUT the same week I had to do a drivers licence renewal due to my age being over 70 years. OMG that’s when everything went crazy. In my friendly banter with the doctor that exams you for a drivers license I mentioned that i had just completed an aviation medical. I showed him my avaition medical certificate from my wallet. “We have to examine you further as you will be able to use your drivers license as medical certificate for flying soon. “WHAT”” BP., Heart rate , O2 levels checked , weighed , then it was a cognitive exam. Then asked if any suicides in the family . What was my relationship with my grandparents like ? “WHAT”. Have I had any suicidal thoughts . “This is only for a drivers license “ . Yes but you could use it to fly a aircraft. I was about to murder some one . This was 380 dollars . For 2 hours of garbage . Then it was a eye check . another 185 dollars. But the eye specialist was the same used for the avaition exam. Haven’t I seen you before “, [No pun intended] was the question Yes. She made it quick but still charged the amount if she had done the complete check up. My drivers license is for 5 years . At least my medical for my flying license is for 2 years but very palatable.The aviation medical only took 40 mins and then we chatted for nearly 2 hours about Lycoming engines. The doctor collects all types of Lycoming engines as a hobby. So to pass your aviation medical is take a lycoming maintenance manual with you.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

This was so simple. The FAA in my opinion has made this hard.

61.413, What are the privileges of my flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating, says a subpart K Sport Pilot can only issue endorsements and training for a Sport Pilot.

I am either an ATP Helicopter with Comm Multi Airplane. I hold and maintain currency in a subpart H issued CFII certificate for Airplane and Helicopter.

Under subpart H, 61.195, Flight Instructor Limitations and Qualifications, has no such limits as 61.413.

Since the beginning of the Sport Pilot rating, I've given mostly flight reviews to both Private Pilots and Sport Pilots. Never a limit to my endorsement. If the aircraft we were flying was a Sport Pilot qualified aircraft, I could have been the PIC and if it was not a Sport Pilot qualified aircraft, I couldn't be PIC. Nothing changed 7 years ago when my class 1 medical expired.

What's changed for a subpart H CFI without a class medical or Basic Med? I can now be PIC in more aircraft than before MOSAIC. That is it. I've always been qualified to fly these additional aircraft, I just didn't have a medical to be PIC in them.

I'm sure hoping the AOPA and others get the FAA straightened out here. This is ridiculous.