The ....NEW...United Air Lines....

[AR Dave]

Interesting to see what the Bean Counters are up too! Yesterday on my $700 RT flight to Alaska, on NW, I was offered a snack box $3 or sack lunch $5. This just gets under my nerves! Charge $705 for the ticket if you have too. BTW, that ticket swings $200 like the stock market, so I watch for the best prices. I waited too late for that one and had to go with the $700. Don't know why they can't just charge 5 or 10 cents a mile and leave it at that! Of course I'd like a flat 10% income tax filed on an index card also. Movies went from being part of your ticket, to $5 if you want the head phones to hear the sound with, and then finally they took the movies away permanently. That $5 used to get on my nerves. Just put it on my ticket! This is a 5.5 hr flight from Minn to Anch. None of this is that important to me, because I take my sack lunch now read a book, and don't pay the $5 for beverages either. But it still urkes me to have the flight attendant peddling $5 this and that!

If the other airlines will take notice! Alaska Airlines is moving in to Dallas in July (Delta has moved out). Many of us frequent flyer's dropped Delta because they didn't want our business anymore. ex @ meals, movies, mileage awards, schedules, & attitude. Alaska Airlines has been consisantly expanding and taking business from other airlines that are cutting services (but not ticket prices). I'm only saying this because this is what you can expect from Alaska, Hot Meal, DVD movie player in your lap, 25K mileage award ticket, & a big smile on everyone's faces. I'll make a bet that the issue of pilots and water is the last thing on anyones minds at Alaska. As a 100,000 miles a year passenger, who was flying 5 different airlines, I can easily see the moral changes in the different airlines.

Bean Counters have their jobs to do, but CEO's and business leaders have theirs also. If employees feel they are being slighted by the company, they'll make it up 3 times over in other area's. Like charging an extra 1/2 hr overtime to pay for bottled water. It is far better to have happy, motivated, & loyal, employees than paranoid (management vs employee) minded workers.

[170C]

Hey Dave, what did you decide on your paint job? Boy we need to order this current Texas weather for Petit Jean!

Gotta get in my "dig", I think Alaska Airlines is coming to D/FW, if I read it correctly in the FORT WORTH paper, not to dallas Gotta get in a plug for Fort Worth. "Where the West begins", just West of dallas, "Where the east peters out" Noticed today they are hawking a bunch of T-shirts for this weekend's race @ Texas Motor Speedway in Fort Worth, but the shirts say dallas. May be a lot of folks really lost if they are looking for TMS in dallas.

Have a good 2 weeks and we'll see you on the 28th!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

My initial reaction was somewhat in line with Eric. I have to buy my own breakfast, lunch, dinner and water if I want them.

But we don't walk in each others shoes so it is hard for me to fully understand the situation. I'm sure there is a good reason for water to be supplied to the pilots.

I think Dave had it right. The bean counters and CEOs can't qualify or count what a happy employee saves them or the profit they generate.

One boss had nothing better to do than make sure we recycled used copy paper through the copy machine using the blank back side. The copy machine broke more often due to the staples left in the recycled paper but the boss couldn't count the lost productivity. A recent supervisor wouldn't buy the color ink cartridges for our printers. Said we didn't need to print in color. Worked fine till the printer stopped working. He also recycled paper till a weight & balance was printed on both sides of the paper and he didn't know which one was current.

In my current job as a MedEvac pilot medical tape and examination gloves are pretty much free for the the taking. While I don't have a lot of use for tape and gloves if the boss would start to count them I'm sure there would be several flights where the weather was "just to bad to go". One completed flight would buy a life time supply of tape and gloves for everybody.

I have rarely worked for an employer that understood the effect of a happy employee. It's just to easy to count the water bottles and reams of paper.

[Walker]

Whatever you do, don't drink the blue water.

[flyguy]

LETS SORT OUT WHAT GEORGE STARTED HERE. THESE MANAGERS AT UNITED (ual rinky_dinks) OUGHT TO BE SLAPPED SILLY. EVEN A CREW OF 12 ON AN INTERNATIONAL RUN WONT DRINK $50 BUCKS WORTH OF WATER! IT PROBABLY COST MORE TO PUT OUT THE STUPID MEMO AND CIRCULATE IT THAN THE WATER WOULD COST FOR A YEAR. THIS IS TYPICAL OF UPPER MANAGEMENT DUPES COMING FROM NEPOTISTIC INBRED HIRING CIRCLES THAT HIRES CEO'S THAT USUALLY HAVE NO CLUE HOW TO RUN ANY BUSINESS THEY GET TO THE TOP DRAWER IN.
THE UNIVERSITIES CRANK OUT NEW "MBAS" EVERY SPRING AND GUESS WHERE THEY WANT TO START? CEO - BABY!

ONE QUESTION ABOUT ALASKA AIRLINE DAVE, IF THEY HAVN'T MENDED THEIR SHODDY MAINTENENCE PRACTICES, I DON'T WANT TO RIDE ANYWHERE IN ONE OF THEIR PLANES. DON'T CARE IF THEY SMILE TILL YA CAINT SEE THEIR EYES.

HEADLINE READS
SOURCE : WHITE HOUSE NEWS BRIEFING: "THE ECONOMY IS REALLY BOOMING". "OH YEAH - NEXT ARTICLE: DELTA REDUCING FLIGHTS AT DFW

The transformation will begin by cutting as many as 7,000 jobs including a reported 2,000 at DFW. Delta will also cut management by 15 percent and close its DFW hub. By the end of the year, Delta will go from 256 flights a day out of DFW to 21. Delta comprises 21 percent of DFW departures.

AND AS DELTA LEAVES DFW HERE MAY BE ONE REASON"

FROM BLOG http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=391
Delta has been losing money? Delta has plans to ramp up a new U.S.-China service as part of its global expansion. I guess there’s big money in flying people to China and back. This expansion is a part of the SkyTeam, an alliance whose members include Air France, Delta Air Lines and Korean Air. I guess the airlines figure labor cost are high at U.S. airports, so what the hell, why not follow the manufacturing sector and move resources offshore. Maybe the Chinese will have big repair facilities and Delta can send all their jet work to China in on the deal. Delta may just be out of business in another year or the whole airline may move to China. The airlines are all trying to lower costs. It’s as if airline management believes operating a jet airliner carrying millions of people can be done right on shoestring budgets. It is very expensive to operate a jet and the airport costs are just tremendous. You can’t run a 737 Boeing on the cheap and stay in business for long. It just does not work that way. It is a high cost, low yield business and good management will make you or break you. China may look great today for Delta and in a year or two they may find it was more trouble than it was worth. They must figure DFW isn’t worth the investment, so they’ll take their chances in China. All I can say is goodbye Delta, nobody ever said Dallas needed you. Life goes on.

ANYWAY SEVERAL OF OUR ONCE PROUD AIRLINES HAVE GONE INTO THE SUNSET. IT IS A SAD PLIGHT FOR WHAT WAS ONCE ONE OF THE BEST INDUSTRIES IN THE COUNTRY TO WORK IN - -

RIP - - DONE IN BY GREEDY INCOMPENTENT JERKS.

[AR Dave]

Ole Gar,
Interesting that you might mention Alaska Airline Maintenance. I sure would like to know that they are doing quality maintenance. How will I know? Our company bought two 737's, put tundra tires on them, a gravel package, STOL. These were Alaska Airlines jets, which they continued to run the Charter Service, including maintenance, pilots, flight attendants, everything for the past many years. Well two years ago, the contract was bought out by Northern Air Cargo. Everyone here on the Slope is trying to figure out what's been going on for the last two years. At least one of those jets have continually been out of service, getting repairs, since the new contract. What we are wondering? Is it Northern Air that can't keep em flying? Or had Alaska Airlines maintenance let the planes run down so bad, that Northern Air is having to catch up again.
Other than that and the tails falling off, I havn't heard that many bad reports.

[GAHorn]

I agree with everything that goofy guy over on the lake said except...I'm not sure the quoted blogger knows what he's talking about. (Goodby Delta? Dallas never needed you? I guess he'd rather have only one airline choice in DFW and another one in ATL. We're back to 1934 with only one airline serving any particular area...on a shoestring.)
China/Pacific Rim is where all the economic growth will be for the next 500 years and Delta is merely seeing where the travel is and trying to serve the market. (Chinese are going to own us in a couple decades...the part of us Saudis don't own after their meeting this week in Dallas. From the area papers: the president and the saudi prince will be discussing "...greater economic ties between our two countries" while at the ranch in Crawford.)
I don't think Delta is simply looking for cheap labor.....they are looking for passengers. (They need to be looking for execs. who give a dam about aviation.) The airline industry is like telecommunications and everything else....big mergers....big CEO opportunities... less service....more cost...the little guy pays....the rich guy gets big tax relief.....he's so poor and isn't doing well enough to pay taxes. Oops. No money for public services. We'd better privatize everything so someone can skim off some profit from the ever-poorer services. And another thousand jobs down the drain...
I hope this country wakes up soon. There's only one thing that trickles down well...and it ain't money.

[TP]

I'm a heavey equipment operator, welder and mechanic by trade. What I do depands on what hat im wearing for the day. Never went to college. Don't know a lot about anything. But I know this. If I don't fill my water cooler in the morning no one is going to do it for me and Im not going to have anything to drink at work. If I don't fix my lunch and packet it I'm not going to eat . In 25yrs I have never worked on a job site that had a office trailer. So your not going to find any sympathy from this corner. With that said I don't envy you . The alure of see the world is apealing. However there is something to be said for being able to sleep in your own bed every night. I feel/ think that the upper levels of coraprate america are makeing out like fat cats at the expense of the people who's shoulders there standing on and the politicians of this country are in bed with them. I guess it all comes down to where your standing as to your point of view.

[GAHorn]

That's great TP ...that you can pack your own water. But have you tried to carry a container of liquid thru airport security lately?
I'm afraid some folks are missing the point. The point is that the pilot's office is the dad-gum airplane! No water at the work place for the employees! Doesn't matter that they might be stuck there for 8, 9 10 or MORE hours and their well-being (and hydration) is important to the safety of their passengers! Their employer (who gives perks to the execs) hasn't got the humanity to simply provide WATER for employees! The point is also ... that it has come to the point that even without consideration of safety issues....that a company of stature sees nothing out of place, nothing disrespectful...of such pettiness. It causes me to decide that if I should find myself needful of airline travel...then I'll look to fly ANY airline but United simply because of their petty attitude toward fellow humans. I don't want to ride behind a pilot so troubled by such pettiness that his thoughts are those of (rightful) disgust and anger at his employer.
(Not to anyone in particular, but....): If you're not understanding the problem, then you are part of the problem.
A bumper sticker I saw recently pretty well sums it up in my opinion. "If you aren't appalled ...then you aren't paying attention."

[c170b53]

Like making Pilots walk through metal detectors makes any sense. The biggest problem for the big boys is adjusting to the low cost carrier. With the low cost model there's no infrastructure requiring upkeep. Everything is farmed out to the lowest bidder. Then they let the service providers beat themselves up, like Walley Mart does with their suppliers. Bottom line from an aircraft maintenance point of view, its unlikely that the plane will be maintained in the manner that the aircraft manufacturer intended. This has not had a large impact as of yet, as most of the commercial fleet is being renewed due to the price of fuel. Most of the individuals in the industry have seen a downward spiral for the last 12 years. What has changed in maintenance is that the industry can no longer attract new employees. With large attrition due to retirements, and with wage and productivity demands from employers attracting qualified individuals will in the future prove to be challenging.

[GAHorn]

I've got a friend or two at United. One of them, captaining a flight departing Chicago, was asked to step aside by the rent-a-cop at the security screening area. He was in United uniform, with proper ID badge displayed prominently.
He was "wanded" ... with negative/no beep result...then asked to step further aside so he could be further inspected. He was asked to remove his shoes and they were x-rayed. A dog was brought to smell the shoes...with no reaction from the dog. (Good thing they weren't my shoes....the dog would have chewed 'em up!)
Finally a security "supervisor" was brought over to ask questions about where he was going and who was he going to visit while travelling
My friend answered the questions: "I am the pilot on this flight, and I'll see whoever get's into the cockpit with me. Why are my shoes being smelled by the dog?"
"He's an explosives-sniffing dog."
My friend refrained from pointing out that if he had any intentions of disrupting the flight ...that as pilot-in-command ... he would have little need for exploding shoes.
(I can't help wondering how many dishevelled knap-sack equipped passengers were allowed to pass without the same inspection.)

[jmbrwn]

And just think...your government spent BILLION$ forming the TSA to train and provide the agents to protect you from those dangerous airline pilots

[DWood]

The airlines and cost cutting mentality is just the beginning for several of us. It is a very sad day when pension plans go to the government to pay out at pennies on the dollar. I am very afraid that this will be the trend. What the airlines are going through is the same as what the US auto companies are just starting to go through. It is called legacy costs. A Unitied Airline that has been in business for many years just can't compete with a low cost airline like SWA. It is identical to one of the US auto companies competing with a foreign car company building plants in the US with new employes at much less cost. The Japanese auto company workforce in the US hasn't even started to retire yet and the US car companies have thousands on the pension system with full benefits.
The water bottles are not the problem, we just have management that does not have any other way to make up for previous uninformed or bad decisions.

The big airlines and the US auto companies had it so good for so long that they forgot or never learned how to take care of customers. ( Don't get me wrong, I am NOT blaiming the pilots as I am not blaiming the UAW or engineers). Now that those same customers have other choices, they go away. That is one of the reasons that foreign car companies and low cost airlines are thriving.

We should all hope that our children have the same opportunities that we have had and we should all work very hard to get competent people in office that can address the high cost of gas, the high cost of health care, and unfair foreign competition.

Without that, we will all be fighting for deck chairs (or water bottles) on the Titanic.

[AR Dave]

Well said! I flew on American to Chicago this time and guess what? Here comes the peddler's, $3 for a snack / $5 for a sandwich anyone? Like at a baseball game. Wonder how American and NW came up with the same $ dollar amount for their junk food. Got on Alaska in Chicago (of course we had to wait 1 hr getting into Chicago and another hr getting out). But Alaska heated everyone up a hot meal and acted like we were their favorite relatives. And put the DVD players in our laps. Big discussion broke out, right there around me, about how everyone sure enjoyed the atmosphere on Alaska. While we were sitting on the ramp I asked the flight attendant, if the Pilots had enough drinking water since they were handing out bottled water. They thought that was funny! I've been riding all these Airlines for years and I'm telling you from the customer side, Alaska is expanding and taking over everyone elses market, because it's being handed to them. This is an open discussion among our thousand's of employees up here. We've watched everyone migrate from airline to airline in mass grouping. When there is a sale on tickets, word is spread on email across the slope like wild fire. We've been accurately predicting which airline is going to have future troubles for years. Some of us even write the Airlines and tell them they're messing up. Right now our biggest fear is that Alaska's partners especially Delta, are going to have a bad influence on Alaska instead of the other way around. But Alaska keeps promising us that they understand the business. I just wonder how come when we migrate away from 1 airline, like we did Delta 2 years ago, their Bean Counters say people are not flying anymore. This is just what I see as a paying customer, so it's probably not worth much. Obviously not to some airlines. Last year I was MVP on 3 airlines, this year I'm going Gold with Alaska all the way, it's just too easy. Mainly because of the freuqent flyer program. I do hope Alaska continues to have competition! Even with the continued success, they lost 80 million this year, their Pilots took a recent cut in pay, and their baggage handlers union is about to get spanked. Difference is the customer doesn't see this when he sits down to fly the friendly sky's.

[jmbrwn]

"Difference is the customer doesn't see this when he sits down to fly the friendly sky's."

They will, Dave...believe me, they will. The pilots just had a 26% pay cut shoved down their throats by an arbitrator...and they are LIVID! I just read that today over 400+ baggage handlers are getting the ax in SEA, only to be outsourced to cheaper labor.

In the end, the customer will get what they pay for.