Jumping out of a plane

[Bill Venohr]

I've read a few news stories about the guy in Spring, Texas who went up with a flight instructor in a Cessna 152 to 9000ft, then jumped out(suicide). The news story said the flight instructor just noticed a bump and looked over and saw the guys feet as he exited the airplane. This doesn't make any sense.

We all know how small this cockpit is, and I can't imagine any flight instructor not noticing the releasing of the seat belt, noise and wind from opening the door, and then a convoluted twist to get out of the plane. In fact, I think it would be extremely hard to get the door open unless you slowed way down.

I can't imagine anyone being able to get out without placing the flight instructor under duress or drugging him. Otherwise, there had to have been a struggle--again, this makes no sense to me, unless the instructor was assisting.

Any other insight out there? I hate to see this kind of stuff in the news without an accurate accounting.

[jon s blocker]

Unless the instructor has prior knowledge of the act about to take place, he has no reason to believe it would. Other than being the pilot in command of the aircraft, how can we make a judgement call on his actions? A passenger can release a seatbelt open a door and be out of that door in less than 4 seconds, which, unless the person flying the aircraft is anticipating, would be almost impossible to stop. The question is why the person that jumped chose that venue at that time to commit that act. While trying to pilot an aircraft, with your seatbelt on, it would be difficult at best to keep someone in the plane if he was in the mind to exit. The pilot in question was probablty so traumatized, that he over simplified his observations at the time, plus most people who are paying attention to something else, miss alot of goings on around them and can give limited detail to those events. I can only draw from 20 years experience as a detective as to those observations, but I would be very slow to point a finger at the instructor. Just my opinion, and only my thoughts on a tragedy that, agreed, does give a black mark on general aviation.

[GAHorn]

As crazy and unbelievable as it may sound ( I also immediately was suspicious of complicity on the part of the instructor) I was less so after I considered the fact that if I was in a C-150 and if the other occupant of the aircraft deliberately tried to throw me out, he'd have a hell of a time! Without the interior of the airplane being destroyed and no other signs of a struggle like the face of the instructor being ripped off, the guy who fell/jumped probably wanted to do it.
In any case, the small paragraph in the paper almost certainly isn't the only evidence being considered by law enforcement.

[N1478D]

One clue has to be that they were on an instructional flight and they had spent the time to climb to 9000 feet in a 152. If you are being paid by the hour to teach someone how to fly, take off from near sea level, and climb to 9000 feet in something that climbs as slow as a 152 with two people on board . . . What in the world could you be teaching during that time? Maybe it was a missprint and they were at 900 feet.

[JDH]

Before I got wiser and decided to stay in the planes and fly them, I jumped out of them for many years. A friend of mine, (from Airborne days) very wild and crazy kind of guy, decided to jump out of a C150 that would be piloted by another friend of ours. At this point we had jumped out of pretty much everything that flew, from balloons, choppers, planes, etc and off of anything we could climb; this guy was not a beginner at jumping or entering-exiting a plane. Serge is about 5'8" and was in great shape. Mind you, he did have a chute on his back, with piggy back reserve, but the door of the 150 was off. When he got to the ground, he did tell me that he had the toughest time to get out of the plane and make a "safe" exit. And the pilot got pretty scared when he saw Serge struggle so. OK, this guy you are talking about, he could have been smaller, he had no chute and probably didn't care if he exited safely or if he'd bounce off the side of the plane, but unless both people on board are very small with short legs and narrow shoulders, it would be very tough to get out of there without bouncing off the other occupant; certainly impossible without him noticing. Possibly in shock and disbelief that someone would do something like that... If this is a true story, this guy just messed up that pilots head for a while... JD

[N1478D]

One clue has to be that they were on an instructional flight and they had spent the time to climb to 9000 feet in a 152. If you are being paid by the hour to teach someone how to fly, take off from near sea level, and climb to 9000 feet in something that climbs as slow as a 152 with two people on board . . . What in the world could you be teaching during that time? Maybe it was a missprint and they were at 900 feet.

The AOPA update that came today says that the student asked to go up to 9000 feet to see if he still had an ear problem that he had at that altitude. That would explain why they were up that high. It also said that they found the body, so guess it is a true story - it sure is hard to believe. Sorry to hear about the tragic event, and feel bad for everyone involved, but glad it was a C152 and not a C170!

[zero.one.victor]

A friend of mine had to jump out of a Smith Miniplane (small single seat biplane) about a year & a half ago. He had just made a low pass at a friend's airstrip at close to 200 mph and did a high-G pull-up when the stick went slack on him. He got out at around 500 feet AGL,pulling the throttle off as he came out,and immediately popping his chute.The whole episode,including the pass,took about 4 seconds according to the people who witnessed it from the ground. Consider how long it takes to climb in or out of one of those things,under normal circumstances. It's amazing how much faster you can do it with enough motivation.

Eric

[flyguy]

Has anyone ever tried to open the door on a plane inflight? The 100mph slipstream is a powerful force! You can actually steer the plane with small door movements into it. No pilot with any sensibilities at all would fail to notice the door coming open and the pax trying to get out! My FWIW, The pilot is involved in some way!

[rudymantel]

Just as a point of interest, I knew a pilot who raced a P-63 in the Thompson Trophy race. His engine blew at low altitude but he was hauling. So he pulled up to a few hundred feet and bailed out successfully.
The P-63 did have small side doors on both sides of the cockpit, probably no bigger than a Cessna 150's.
Rudy

[blueldr]

Rudy,
On a P-39 or a P-63 you didn't open the door to bail out. You pulled the hinge pins and the door was salvoed,--- Just lkike the Cessna 150 Aerobat.

BL

[GAHorn]

I went to the Kingsbury, TX fly-in Saturday. On the way back, on the "chit-chat" channel one of the guys who was in a 150 decided to test the theory as to whether or not a determined someone could could open the door on a 150 and exit quickly. After the test, he said he thought it could be done.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Remember the instructor is trying to climb to 9000 and probably was a lot slower than 100 in the climb. Also I wouldn't be surprised to find the plane was actually a 172 jump plane with the door off. News media never identify aircraft right.

[GAHorn]

That's a point, Bruce. It might not even have been a student pilot with an earache. It could've been just a disgusted voter.

[rudymantel]

A friend of mine knew Russ Filler, the man who jumped from the 150- he worked with him at NASA. He said Filler was about 5'-10" and of slight build.
He heard that Filler asked the instructor to bank sharply right for future aerial photo information. The instructor complied and saw his passenger's feet as he was leaving the airplane.
Rudy