MY AIRPLANE IS LOCATED 45 MILES FROM ST.LOUIS AT AIRPT W NO FBO FOR LAST 8 YEARS.
I AM GRATEFUL TO HAVE LOCATED AN AP/IA THAT WILL COMMUTE TO WORK ON MY C 170B.
I AM PUZZLED ABOUT THE RESPONSIBILTY OF ENTERING WORK INTO THE LOG BOOK.
I PAID THE BILL AND AP/IA HANDED ME SELF ADHESIVE LABELS HE HAD PRINTED AND TOLD ME TO STICK THEM IN THE ORIG LOGBOOKS.
A/C PASSED INSP W/O ANY MAJOR ISSUES AND I AM THANKFUL.
MY IMMEDIATE QUESTION IS DOES THE FAA RECOGNIZE AND APPROVE OF LABELS INSTEAD OF HAND ANNOTATION W INK?
A HOST OF QUESTIONS COME TO MIND AS TO WHETHER THE OWNER SHOULD BE TRUSTED TO STICK THESE IN LOG BOOK.
PLEASE HELP UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE. I AM NOT APPLYING THESE LABELS UNTIL I KNOW REALLY KNOW THE ACCEPTED PROCEDURE.
REGARDS
GRADYB
ANNUAL INSPECTION LOG BOOK ENTRY -SELF ADHESIVE LABELS?
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
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MoonlightVFR
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:55 pm
ANNUAL INSPECTION LOG BOOK ENTRY -SELF ADHESIVE LABELS?
gradyb, '54 B N2890C
This is accepted practice, and done all the time. Just put the sticker on the next blank page of the logbook -- one in each logbook, as appropriate.
The things that matter are the description of the work, the mechanic's signature, and the A&P license number. Only the signature needs to be hand-written, and a printed sticker is much better for legibility and clarity. Anything that makes logs more readable is a good thing.
Best Regards,
John
The things that matter are the description of the work, the mechanic's signature, and the A&P license number. Only the signature needs to be hand-written, and a printed sticker is much better for legibility and clarity. Anything that makes logs more readable is a good thing.
Best Regards,
John
John Renwick
Minneapolis, MN
Former owner, '55 C-170B, N4401B
'42 J-3 Cub, N62088
'50 Swift GC-1B, N2431B, Oshkosh 2009 Outstanding Swift Award, 2016 Best Continuously Maintained Swift
Minneapolis, MN
Former owner, '55 C-170B, N4401B
'42 J-3 Cub, N62088
'50 Swift GC-1B, N2431B, Oshkosh 2009 Outstanding Swift Award, 2016 Best Continuously Maintained Swift
Actually, Grady, I'd recommend you go ahead and apply the labels to the page where appropriate. The AP/IA is required to enter into the aircraft records any work/inspections/results that he accomplished. As long as the labels clearly identify the aircraft/engine by registration, serial, hours in service/since last rebuld, etc., then they are legitimate.
I presume he actually had access to your aircraft's logbooks/records when he performed the inspection? Did he provide you with a list of AD's and how they were accomplished and when they are next due (if re-occuring)? He should have, and if not, then you should request that information as well over his dated signature.
I presume he actually had access to your aircraft's logbooks/records when he performed the inspection? Did he provide you with a list of AD's and how they were accomplished and when they are next due (if re-occuring)? He should have, and if not, then you should request that information as well over his dated signature.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
My first IA for the 170 moved to the East coast after the second annual.
Since then, I have had the same inspector who has arthritis, which makes it difficult for him to write. I had noticed that in previous annual entries in the log books, labels had been used by some of the different inpectors over the 50+ years of entries. My inspector allows the owner to do as much of the work under his supervision as the owner is experienced enough to do. Having all of the part numbers of any replaced parts, I wrote up an annual based on his previous hand written entries on a label and presented it to him for his review on our second annual back about 7 years ago. He liked it, and every once in a while over the years he will ask for a modification, which is very easy with the computer to rewrite the label. This allows me to be even more involved in the maintenance of the airplane and I enjoy it. It helps him to not have to do anything but the final airworthiness line with his signature and number and the log books are very readable.
Also, at the same time I started a book of service bulletins and a book of AD's with a list of applicable AD's to the airplane and it's accesories. I maintain the information as to how each AD has been satisfied and when the next date of occurance is, etc.
Since the only work that he normally has to do is to inpect the airplane, inspect the labels, and review my AD documentation, my annuals are less than $200, for his part. This does not include the cost of filters, parts, etc.
All of this didn't happen the first year, it grew over the years. He knows that I don't wait 12 months for something to be discovered. At six months I clean & rotate the plugs, do a compression test, inspect for exhaust leaks, change filters, inpect brakes, etc. The trust between us has built up over the years and it is a very enjoyable relationship.
Since then, I have had the same inspector who has arthritis, which makes it difficult for him to write. I had noticed that in previous annual entries in the log books, labels had been used by some of the different inpectors over the 50+ years of entries. My inspector allows the owner to do as much of the work under his supervision as the owner is experienced enough to do. Having all of the part numbers of any replaced parts, I wrote up an annual based on his previous hand written entries on a label and presented it to him for his review on our second annual back about 7 years ago. He liked it, and every once in a while over the years he will ask for a modification, which is very easy with the computer to rewrite the label. This allows me to be even more involved in the maintenance of the airplane and I enjoy it. It helps him to not have to do anything but the final airworthiness line with his signature and number and the log books are very readable.
Also, at the same time I started a book of service bulletins and a book of AD's with a list of applicable AD's to the airplane and it's accesories. I maintain the information as to how each AD has been satisfied and when the next date of occurance is, etc.
Since the only work that he normally has to do is to inpect the airplane, inspect the labels, and review my AD documentation, my annuals are less than $200, for his part. This does not include the cost of filters, parts, etc.
All of this didn't happen the first year, it grew over the years. He knows that I don't wait 12 months for something to be discovered. At six months I clean & rotate the plugs, do a compression test, inspect for exhaust leaks, change filters, inpect brakes, etc. The trust between us has built up over the years and it is a very enjoyable relationship.
Joe
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
GRADYB,
I don't mind you "shouting" I'm a little hard of hearing! As for using sticky sheets for log book entrys, It's been done for years, Don't worry about it! Just make sure they get in your log book!! (I'm assuming singed). George brought up a good subject, (that along with the sticky sing off you had the Recurring AD sheet along with the singoff) This can be done in several diffrent ways! I wanted to share the way I do it, but can't figure the way to send a word file with a reply. (I'm just computer stupid)(not ignorent I mean stupid!!!!) If you or anyone else can help me post the Recurring sheet I use, I'll be glad to throw it out there for everyone to scrutinize and use as they feel needed. (if at all)
brad
I don't mind you "shouting" I'm a little hard of hearing! As for using sticky sheets for log book entrys, It's been done for years, Don't worry about it! Just make sure they get in your log book!! (I'm assuming singed). George brought up a good subject, (that along with the sticky sing off you had the Recurring AD sheet along with the singoff) This can be done in several diffrent ways! I wanted to share the way I do it, but can't figure the way to send a word file with a reply. (I'm just computer stupid)(not ignorent I mean stupid!!!!) If you or anyone else can help me post the Recurring sheet I use, I'll be glad to throw it out there for everyone to scrutinize and use as they feel needed. (if at all)
brad
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10327
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Brad there isn't a way to post with an attachment other than a picture. If is possible to make a picture of your word document a post that but as this document would change as ADs change or would be slightly different for each individual plane I don't think the effort would be worth it.
I have a simple Excel sheet with all ADs and how they are complied with as well as the wording for each AD and SB.
My IA used it to double check his software to print his report which he will reuse each year for my annual.
I have a simple Excel sheet with all ADs and how they are complied with as well as the wording for each AD and SB.
My IA used it to double check his software to print his report which he will reuse each year for my annual.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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Romeo Tango
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:32 pm
Stickers
I use preprinted labels for endorsements and must-be-logged training for my flight students - they are legal as long as you sign and date by hand. More than legal, they are actually a whole bunch more legible than the handwritten versions!
RT
RT
Bruce,N9149A wrote:Brad there isn't a way to post with an attachment other than a picture. If is possible to make a picture of your word document a post that but as this document would change as ADs change or would be slightly different for each individual plane I don't think the effort would be worth it.
I have a simple Excel sheet with all ADs and how they are complied with as well as the wording for each AD and SB.
My IA used it to double check his software to print his report which he will reuse each year for my annual.
I don't know what happened to the note I sent you last night after you replyed to me. ( But I'm out here in po-dunk America and I never know if I'm online or not!!) I just probaly got shut off! I just wanted to thank you for your note that I can't send a word file to this forum. The file I was going to send was aircraft spicifact. So it dosn't matter, if people were looking for 170 facts I don't have them in the file I wanted to send anyway! Just wanted to share what I have! Thanks again!
brad
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Tom Downey
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 4:50 am
I have preprinted labels for the annual sign off for piper and cessna and the generic aircraft that gives the required statement for airworthiness.
but that is all it says. the TT and Tach times are entered on the log book page in the proper column, and my signature is written on the page also.
this is by the FSDO guidance.
but that is all it says. the TT and Tach times are entered on the log book page in the proper column, and my signature is written on the page also.
this is by the FSDO guidance.
Tom Downey A&P-IA