Major Overhaul...adventure in the making!

[310qdrivr]

Hi Russ.... I'm a new c170b owner (1954 N1965C) I'm looking to overhaul the engine (c-145) this winter. I was wondering the name and phone# of the person overhauling your engine. I'm an IA and considering doing it myself, however if his price is resonable I may outsource....thanks!

[GAHorn]

Russ, ...you didn't leave a method to contact you quickly...but there's a fellow member with a standard crank for sale on ebay. It's guaranteed by him, and is presently at less than $1100. Closes in an hour.
item=1875540348

[N3243A]

Russ, ...you didn't leave a method to contact you quickly...but there's a fellow member with a standard crank for sale on ebay. It's guaranteed by him, and is presently at less than $1100. Closes in an hour.
item=1875540348

It sold for $1426. Went up over $300 in 20 minutes. The camshaft he also had went for only $102! Was tempted just to buy it in case I needed it.

[russfarris]

Thanks for the heads up guys, but I found a crank a month ago...in point of fact, I test flew my "new" engine yesterday, full report on the overhaul oddesey soon. The short version: it ran great! Good to be back in the air after two months...Russ

[flyguy]

According to an article on AvWeb yesterday, TCM is planning to gouge consumers soon. A price increase of ten percent is in the making for Jan. 2003. I guess this means anyone planing an overhaul in the next few months should order the parts now to avoid a hefty price increase if one waits too long.

http://www.avweb.com/newswire/9_01a/bri ... 070-1.html

Happy new year aviators!

[GAHorn]

In a "counterbalancing" manuever ( get it? ) Lycoming has averaged things out by dropping parts prices 10%. In fact, they'll even pay more than full price for their own crankshafts! Heh-heh!

(Sorry all you Lyc owners. Being a Cont. fan, I just couldn't resist a little poke at brand "L".)

[russfarris]

Well, two months and 12,500 bucks later the overhaul adventure is drawing to a close!

I finally found a standard size crank, both mains and rods, with a fresh yellow tag from Aircraft Specialties in Tulsa, for the princely sum of 3,200 dollars...yikes I guess I could have spent months looking for a bargain while my airplane sat as a glider, but I wasn't really in the mood. My advice - if you are even remotely considering an overhaul in the near or distant future, start the search RIGHT NOW for a good crank, especially if you need the eight bolt flange. If you have the later six bolt, availabilty is much greater, and it's less of a seller's market. I believe I could have found a good crank for around 2,500 if I had the luxury of time.

Other than the crank snafu, everything went by the book for the rest of the rebuild. Aircraft Specialties inspected the camshaft and re-ground it to specs, checked out the rods and replaced three lifter bodies. Div-Co handled the crankcase, which was inspected and line bored. All limits were to new.

I went to Ray's shop during the re-assembly process to ask stupid questions, take lots of pictures and learn something, all without getting in the way. Much.
He likes to work alone, so I limited myself to two visits; one to inspect my new crankshaft, and the other after the case and rods were back together, but before the cylinders were installed.

By the way, this was the perfect time to paint the engine the original 1952 gray for the case and sump, and black for the cylinders and rocker covers. Never did like that Continental gold color, anyway!

I was out of town (Germany, actually) when Ray did the first start up. The only question mark was the static RPM at full throttle - 2,100 with the 7653 prop, way short of the 2,230 minimum on the type data sheet. Things that make you go hmmmm...he double checked the timing, jetting and throttle linkage, and it was all OK. Now, even before overhaul this engine BARELY made 2,230 RPM...yes, I checked the RPM with an electronic tach, and the airplane's unit is about 50 RPM low. So the actual static is 2,150. Ray mentions he has seen this before on a fresh re-build, after a few hours running it should wear in a little and pick up 100 to 125 RPM. Better to get it in the air and start breaking in...

To be continued Russ Farris

[zero.one.victor]

Russ,12.5K seems like a very reasonable price for a major overhaul,especially considering that you had to buy a crank!
Did you overhaul your old cylinders,or buy new? I'm assuming this price did NOT include overhauling your accessories,if it did then you made out like a bandit!

Eric

[russfarris]

Hi Eric, yep...accessories weren't included. My Jasco alternator had been installed in 1998 and had less than 300 hours. One Slick mag had 50 hours since new, and the other about 200. Ray went thru them anyway. He replaced the brushes in the starter, it was at about 750 hours since a 1974 rebuild. And that was it...no fuel or vacuum pump on my airplane!

Six new Superior Mill. cylinder kits, for 4,250 dollars. A very good price, some place in Arkansas; I can look it up if you want. I chose Millineum cylinders, in part for the excellent reputation but also because of the re-sale "cachet", if I ever need to unload my airplane, God forbid...

Yes, 12,500 is an excellent price. The mechanic I use, Ray Stillwell, is a 74 year old A & P who has an almost legendary reputation here in South Carolina. He is fussy, particular and has re-built hundreds of engines. His hobby is old Ford flat-head V-8s! He did the Franklin 150 in my Stinson five years ago...Russ Farris

[N170BP]

For what it's worth, using a hand-held tach strobe, I was getting
just under 2200 RPM static on my '54 B model when I 1st got it flying.
It had a 7653 prop on it as well (almost a full-length prop, can't recall the actual length right now....). Engine had 140 SMOH at the time. I wanted
better take-off/climb performance so I had the prop re-pitched to a 51. I
get just under 2400rpm now 50' into the take-off roll, but re-pitching
the prop to a 51 cost me about 8mph in cruise....

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

[GAHorn]

Apart from instrument errors, two things can make a healthy engine static rpm read low,...cold dense air that is the result of a below-S.L. density (the TCDS pertains to standard atmospherics, and cold, dense air is a mass-flow error) and a fresh overhaul. Also, despite what's stamped on the prop hub, consider that your prop might be pitched slightly coarse. Avoid static runs in the first 10 hours of operation of a new engine except with a club prop in a blown test cell.

[zero.one.victor]

Russ,I don't want to tell ya your business,but if you didn't install a new starter clutch I'd sure do it!
When I had my engine OH'd almost 2 years ago,I got a new (overhauled) starter clutch from Niagra Air Parts in New Yawk. $150 for the part plus $20 shipping. No sign that anything was wrong,except a funny little noise just between the engine catching & me releasing the starter knob. The noise went away with the new starter clutch.
The starter clutch failed on my old key-start 150 several years ago.The key-start & pull-start clutches are different designs,the key-start is more prone to failure (shorter service life anyway) in my opinion,but replacement is cheap insurance. When that key-start clutch failed,it spewed out bits & pieces of the little needle bearings into the accesory case & on down into the oil sump. Bad show! Especially with a new engine,you don't want that!
Good luck with the new engine,I'm sure you'll enjoy (like I did) that secure feeling of flying behind a fresh engine!

Eric

[russfarris]

Well, I've passed the 10 hour mark on my rebuild, and I'm very pleased.

After three hours of low altitude, wide open throttle flying at full rich mixture, the oil temp has dropped from about 210 to 190. The engine seems to have limbered up nicely, and now turns up to 2,700 rpm in level flight. After the initial three hours, I drained the oil and cut open the filter, spreading the pleats out on a newspaper. Very little metal was evident...no more than the usual.

Oil consumption is nil, in the seven hours since the oil/filter change it has dropped from seven quarts to about 6.8. I'll probably leave the straight mineral oil in until the next change, at the 25 hour total time mark, at which time I'll do a compression check.

I swear my airplane is 5 MPH faster, when the winds calm down I'll do some checking...I know my wallet is lighter, that's for sure.

The peace of mind of a fresh engine with new cylinders is money well spent...Russ Farris

[Curtis Brown]

Yes it is nice to have a fresh one up front. I have 120 hrs on my overhaul since last April. Sun-N-Fun was my break in trip. I did have some trouble with exhaust values in 3 of the new ECI cylinders. The engine shop fixed them under warranty.
I did a few modifications and spent a lot of money. I got the light weight push button B&C starter, man that thing is wonderful. Changing out to an alternator was maybe the best improvement. All new exhaust, hoses and lines. Rebuilt the baffling and replace mixture and throttle cables. Painted mount and firewall and did some interior and panel work. Basically a restoration project. I had it down for 6 months. Now I am working toward the paint job.
Curtis