Hey Dick, as a alumni of "Corrosion Corner" in MIA (Conner Airlines; went on to Airlift International, ONA, Arrow Air and finally World Airways -all on the DC-8 - I'm dying to know who you flew DC-6s for!
I'm beginning to realize I'm at the tail-end of airline pilots today who grew
up in the non-skeds...Russ Farris
Article for Discussion
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Careful George..... I know Karl, and while he may be morally lax, a whiner he's notlowNslow wrote:Ouch! Quite a rant George. Did you get turned down for an airline job?gahorn wrote:They are now the overpaid, morally-lax, slackers who whine about their six-digit salaries and their stock option plans. (I may never get the vision out of my brain of the last SWA crew I flew behind...two slovenly, dishevelled "buitch"-women with unkept wild hair, wearing black leather "aviator" jackets and barrelling up the jetway elbowing their way past passengers.)
.John
N2865C
"The only stupid question is one that wasn't asked"
N2865C
"The only stupid question is one that wasn't asked"
Well, here's another case of miscommunications via the Internet.
I'm not talking about YOU GUYS! Come on! I'm NOT talking about the guys with a love of airplanes and aviators who happen to also work at airlines. (A real lover of aviation can be an airline pilot...or a cropduster ...or a cfi over at the local airport! They've all got my respect, and the equipment they fly is not what makes me love and respect them and count them as someone like me. It's their deep interest and love of airplanes and others who feel the same. They're the kind that stop doing what they're doing and look up when an airplane flys overhead. Every time!
I got a PM from Mike along the same lines as Dick and Karl's msgs. No, I'm not ranting because of any jealousy of airline pilots. Geez! I've had one of those jobs and that's not what my rant was about at all.
What I was talking about was the preponderance of jokers in the "airline" industry that are there only because it's a job. If they could make it as Enron execs they'd do that too. I would have hoped you'd know the ones....they're the ones that meet the description I was talking about.
If all you saw was a rant against airline pilots...you missed my point (or I failed miserably to make it, I guess.) I'm disappointed that I got that kind of feedback rather than the understanding of what I was discussing.
(And Dick, if you can fly ...you can fly. It makes no difference if it's a simulator or an airplane. People who make excuses for their lousy performance in a simulator (... "I wouldn't have done that if it were a real airplane"....) are BS-ers. Any real aviator can tell the difference without much difficulty, and so can any instructor. I stay current and fly the real thing (and keep current with six-month Part 135 checks) as well as teach in a sim,... I don't need to make excuses for what I do, and I'm not jealous of anyone else.
I'm just disgusted with those that have a flying job but don't like flying, but have a lot of complaints about the "bid". They are poor ambassadors for aviation. (Anyone who thinks I'm down on airline pilots should re-read my message at: http://www.cessna170.org/phpBB2/viewtop ... ter+united
And perhaps didn't know I was ALPA Council Chairman at my airline. )
I'm disappointed some of you guys saw this like you did.
I'm not talking about YOU GUYS! Come on! I'm NOT talking about the guys with a love of airplanes and aviators who happen to also work at airlines. (A real lover of aviation can be an airline pilot...or a cropduster ...or a cfi over at the local airport! They've all got my respect, and the equipment they fly is not what makes me love and respect them and count them as someone like me. It's their deep interest and love of airplanes and others who feel the same. They're the kind that stop doing what they're doing and look up when an airplane flys overhead. Every time!
I got a PM from Mike along the same lines as Dick and Karl's msgs. No, I'm not ranting because of any jealousy of airline pilots. Geez! I've had one of those jobs and that's not what my rant was about at all.
What I was talking about was the preponderance of jokers in the "airline" industry that are there only because it's a job. If they could make it as Enron execs they'd do that too. I would have hoped you'd know the ones....they're the ones that meet the description I was talking about.
If all you saw was a rant against airline pilots...you missed my point (or I failed miserably to make it, I guess.) I'm disappointed that I got that kind of feedback rather than the understanding of what I was discussing.
(And Dick, if you can fly ...you can fly. It makes no difference if it's a simulator or an airplane. People who make excuses for their lousy performance in a simulator (... "I wouldn't have done that if it were a real airplane"....) are BS-ers. Any real aviator can tell the difference without much difficulty, and so can any instructor. I stay current and fly the real thing (and keep current with six-month Part 135 checks) as well as teach in a sim,... I don't need to make excuses for what I do, and I'm not jealous of anyone else.
I'm just disgusted with those that have a flying job but don't like flying, but have a lot of complaints about the "bid". They are poor ambassadors for aviation. (Anyone who thinks I'm down on airline pilots should re-read my message at: http://www.cessna170.org/phpBB2/viewtop ... ter+united
And perhaps didn't know I was ALPA Council Chairman at my airline. )
I'm disappointed some of you guys saw this like you did.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
-
Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10327
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
George
To be honest your experiance with airline pilots has also been mine. I'm just now realizing I know a lot more airline pilots than I thought so perhaps my opnion should change. But till this point it is that most airline pilots don't like their jobs. Why do I have this opinion? Because most of the airline pilots I've gotten to spend some time with weren't happy about the current business of the airline and how their job has changed for the worse. Yes they were not happy with the "bid" or a salary or benefit lose. It has nothing to do with loving airplanes believe me these guys still love them.
Guess what. I know a lot of EMS Helicopter pilots that sound just like the airline pilots. The only difference being the perseption if not reality that the airline guys are complaining about a salary that is 3 to 4 times what helicopter pilot salaries are, and that makes it a bit harder to sympathize with them.
To be honest your experiance with airline pilots has also been mine. I'm just now realizing I know a lot more airline pilots than I thought so perhaps my opnion should change. But till this point it is that most airline pilots don't like their jobs. Why do I have this opinion? Because most of the airline pilots I've gotten to spend some time with weren't happy about the current business of the airline and how their job has changed for the worse. Yes they were not happy with the "bid" or a salary or benefit lose. It has nothing to do with loving airplanes believe me these guys still love them.
Guess what. I know a lot of EMS Helicopter pilots that sound just like the airline pilots. The only difference being the perseption if not reality that the airline guys are complaining about a salary that is 3 to 4 times what helicopter pilot salaries are, and that makes it a bit harder to sympathize with them.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Russ,
I used to fly for World Airways. In MIA they had us staying in a motel on 36th street out by the airport and adjacent to a canal full of mosquitos and alligators. But By God it was only $8.40/day! The closest place to eat was a hot dog joint that cooked 'em in beer. Can't remember the name of the joint but the gravy was great!
I used to fly for World Airways. In MIA they had us staying in a motel on 36th street out by the airport and adjacent to a canal full of mosquitos and alligators. But By God it was only $8.40/day! The closest place to eat was a hot dog joint that cooked 'em in beer. Can't remember the name of the joint but the gravy was great!
BL
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Green Bean
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 2:13 am
The opinions you express are not your disfavor with only the airline industry, its frustration with every industry in the country. Its called Corporate America. In the 40's thru 70's it was a country that was united by individuals with idea's and self accomplishment. In the 80's, it changed to what you have today, a few driving the mass. Your just focusing on this one visible issue at the moment, and now it is the assembly line of individuals with everyone having and opinion, but not a lot of action. Every day were bombarded with opinions of CNN, FOX, and some insignificant News Caster who can stop you in your tracks with a film clip and opinion, and set your philosophy direction for the day.
George and every one else who cares, is caught up in what we see and what was. It will be very hard to change this movement.
Your not going to change the direction of the plane, but you could change the view of the passengers.
George and every one else who cares, is caught up in what we see and what was. It will be very hard to change this movement.
Your not going to change the direction of the plane, but you could change the view of the passengers.
Last edited by Green Bean on Fri May 04, 2007 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
To make a final point...I'm not down on airline pilots. I'm down on pilots who fly for a living, but aren't happy doing it and who aren't being good ambassadors to the rest of the non-flying community. I'm thinking of the guys who have either lost their love of airplanes and airplane people...or who never had that love at all but are just doing what they do because it's a job.
One of the most highly-paid pilots I've ever known learned to fly in the Air Force because that's the branch he joined to avoid being a ground-pounder in a former war, and if in the Air Force, being a pilot was what got the best assignments. He never loved to fly...it's just what they taught him to do. When he got out of the Air Force he was immediately snapped up by the airline. He's spent an entire career complaining about his lot in life and leaving a poor impression among his listeners.
This thread involved a discussion about why aviation is not the attraction to youngsters it once was. This guy is the type of person who has contributed to that poor development. My observation about him is not a rant against airline pilots or Air Force officers. It's about him and others like him.
They should leave aviation and aviation jobs to those who love it, and they should pursue a career more suited to their personality. (I'd suggest mortician ...but I wouldn't want to offend any of my undertaker friends.)
One of the most highly-paid pilots I've ever known learned to fly in the Air Force because that's the branch he joined to avoid being a ground-pounder in a former war, and if in the Air Force, being a pilot was what got the best assignments. He never loved to fly...it's just what they taught him to do. When he got out of the Air Force he was immediately snapped up by the airline. He's spent an entire career complaining about his lot in life and leaving a poor impression among his listeners.
This thread involved a discussion about why aviation is not the attraction to youngsters it once was. This guy is the type of person who has contributed to that poor development. My observation about him is not a rant against airline pilots or Air Force officers. It's about him and others like him.
They should leave aviation and aviation jobs to those who love it, and they should pursue a career more suited to their personality. (I'd suggest mortician ...but I wouldn't want to offend any of my undertaker friends.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
-
Green Bean
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 2:13 am
I don't think most controllers hate their profession....they just don't like the way the FAA mgmt doesn't negotiate contracts, don't they? (I'm not sure I trust FAA mgmt to decide any money matter either. User fees anyone?)
Don't know about baseball players.... Over Xmas I was standing in the long line at the DFW airport ticket counter, behind a petite little brunette struggling to drag two large duffel bags along, while the tall, athletic guy she was with, posed with head held high ignoring her plight. I realized she needed help as every minute or so the line advanced and she struggled to move the two duffels a few feet forward.
Since he acted oblivious to her plight, and even tho' I had my hands full, I put down my bags and helped her drag the duffels fwd. (His right arm was in a sling, but his left arm was empty and he was otherwise obviously strong and able. She was doing all the work while he cont'd to stand around as if posing for a sculptor.
About this time I noticed the "Professional Base Ball Players Assn." patch on the duffel bags, and I asked him, "Oh...You're a ball player? Who do you play for?"
"It's on the bag", he condescended as he continued to look far off...
I looked on the end of the duffel at the team-logo, and absent-mindedly asked..."Is that a local team?" (It said "RANGERS" on the bag.) He looked at me with disgust. Then it hit me...."OH! Dallas!"
The cute little brunette seemed to struggle to hide her amusement that the guy wasn't as important to strangers as he apparenlty thought he should be.
"What's your name?", I cont'd.
"Tom Diamond" , he said, in a tone that implied everyone should know that.
(I thought about Donald Sutherland, playing the inspecting General in "Dirty Dozen" when a kid replied he was from some small midwestern town. I resisted the impulse to say disinterestedly, "Nev-ver heard of it."
Truth is, I had no idea who he was (other than a guy who was more capable of dragging duffels than that little woman. I found out later he had undergone some kind of elective surgery on his throwing arm at the behest of the team.)
Anyway, obviously he was too important to be bothered to move his own bags. That was someone else's job. Little girls, I suppose.
Nope. I doubt any little boys dream about growing up to be like Tom Diamond, either.
Don't know about baseball players.... Over Xmas I was standing in the long line at the DFW airport ticket counter, behind a petite little brunette struggling to drag two large duffel bags along, while the tall, athletic guy she was with, posed with head held high ignoring her plight. I realized she needed help as every minute or so the line advanced and she struggled to move the two duffels a few feet forward.
Since he acted oblivious to her plight, and even tho' I had my hands full, I put down my bags and helped her drag the duffels fwd. (His right arm was in a sling, but his left arm was empty and he was otherwise obviously strong and able. She was doing all the work while he cont'd to stand around as if posing for a sculptor.
About this time I noticed the "Professional Base Ball Players Assn." patch on the duffel bags, and I asked him, "Oh...You're a ball player? Who do you play for?"
"It's on the bag", he condescended as he continued to look far off...
I looked on the end of the duffel at the team-logo, and absent-mindedly asked..."Is that a local team?" (It said "RANGERS" on the bag.) He looked at me with disgust. Then it hit me...."OH! Dallas!"
The cute little brunette seemed to struggle to hide her amusement that the guy wasn't as important to strangers as he apparenlty thought he should be.
"What's your name?", I cont'd.
"Tom Diamond" , he said, in a tone that implied everyone should know that.
(I thought about Donald Sutherland, playing the inspecting General in "Dirty Dozen" when a kid replied he was from some small midwestern town. I resisted the impulse to say disinterestedly, "Nev-ver heard of it."
Truth is, I had no idea who he was (other than a guy who was more capable of dragging duffels than that little woman. I found out later he had undergone some kind of elective surgery on his throwing arm at the behest of the team.)
Anyway, obviously he was too important to be bothered to move his own bags. That was someone else's job. Little girls, I suppose.
Nope. I doubt any little boys dream about growing up to be like Tom Diamond, either.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
-
Green Bean
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 2:13 am
Okay George, Its time for a break.. You better get on a plane, and come to Alaska for some early King Salmon fishing. No shop talk. Just fishing. All expenses and housing covered after you arrive, you will have to purchase the fishing license. Offer is good for the next 60 days. Hope to see you this summer.
Just to get of topic little here if as the article says that “It’s not a Gen X kind of thing" we can always go after the next generation.
I took a 3 and 4 year to air and space in Feb. by myself! Making regular banana pudding runs with the next generation on board. They seem to enjoy the rides and the airport.
I took a 3 and 4 year to air and space in Feb. by myself! Making regular banana pudding runs with the next generation on board. They seem to enjoy the rides and the airport.
Mike
N 9545A
N 9545A
pekin away
IFEE DOANT KWIT PEKIN AWAY SICH LONG REPLIES HEAL BE WIT OUT FINGERS TU WIND ON A FISHIN POLE HANEL. WHEW!! HE KIN GIT WINED-ED UP SUM!
FER U GAY HORN IMA BOUT TO GO CROSSYIED AND ALL SWOONEY JES TRYIN TO KEEP READIN SUM O THIS. SO I QWIT AN WINT LOOKIN AT THE FIRST LOGO (LOCO! IFN U AXED ME) U SENT. I OPEN IT UP WITH A DIFERENT POGRAM AN IT (THE LOGO) START JIGGLIN TOO!!!!!!!! MAN I THINK U TRYIN TO SCARCE ME. I THOT MY I-BALLS HAD GONE HAWYIRE . I SHUT ER DOUN BUT WHEN DEENIE LEF I LOOK AGIN TU SEE IFN MY EYEBALLS WUZ MESSUPPED BUT SHORE ENUF - - THE LIL BUGGERS IS JUMPIN AGIN. . . .
FER U GAY HORN IMA BOUT TO GO CROSSYIED AND ALL SWOONEY JES TRYIN TO KEEP READIN SUM O THIS. SO I QWIT AN WINT LOOKIN AT THE FIRST LOGO (LOCO! IFN U AXED ME) U SENT. I OPEN IT UP WITH A DIFERENT POGRAM AN IT (THE LOGO) START JIGGLIN TOO!!!!!!!! MAN I THINK U TRYIN TO SCARCE ME. I THOT MY I-BALLS HAD GONE HAWYIRE . I SHUT ER DOUN BUT WHEN DEENIE LEF I LOOK AGIN TU SEE IFN MY EYEBALLS WUZ MESSUPPED BUT SHORE ENUF - - THE LIL BUGGERS IS JUMPIN AGIN. . . .
OLE GAR SEZ - 4 Boats, 4 Planes, 4 houses. I've got to quit collecting!