What are mods worth?

[KG]

Hello all,
I'm trying to place a value on some modifications on an airplane that I am considering buying. I'm not sure what some of them cost new so I am finding it hard to place a value on them. I'm just looking for some ballpark figures of what these mods would cost new and I can deduct for age and desirablity (my desires of course, beauty being in the eye of the beholder).

If any of you have had any of these mods installed and can give me a rough figure of the cost of the STC, parts, and labor I would appreciate it.

A "one piece" windshield.
Bartone exhaust.
Aileron and flap gap seals.

Thanks,
Keith

[jon s blocker]

KG, Alot of the cost of the changes you have listed are in the installation. A one piece windshield is only about $70 more than the standard two piece, including the STC, but the center strap must be removed and usually a different capture strip, (for a lack of a better description) at the top of the windshield. Flap and aileron seals are kind of a love hate type thing. Some say they work, some say they are contrary to the wing design and function, the aileron seal probably being the better functioning of the two, (from what I have read), so do they add value? The Barton exhaust can be read about if you do a search on them, at which time you can probably get an approximate price. Alot of people really try to keep their classics as close to original as possible, a good example is Georges plane, ( a beautiful example and about as close to original as you will find, not only in form but function), and they are very good airplanes. There are people like me that take a basket case and modify the bejesus out of it, and make it a plane with the form and function that meets my needs. I guess the bottom line is that the worth of any change in the aircraft is what it is worth to the buyer. If the seller has added changes to the aircraft he narrows down his buying field to those that agree to the changes he made. Do a search on this site for the changes listed, Get the pros and cons, check the catalogues for current pricing, and make your decissions from there. Just my long winded 2 cents worth. Jon

[KG]

Thanks Jon,
I've been able to come up with most of the information I need by searching. I'm just having to guess at the installation time for the exhaust and windshield. Can't seem to find where anybody posted, "I installed a windshield and it cost me X dollars." Of course you are right that the value for a resale is whatever a buyer will pay for it.
Thanks again.
Keith

[170C]

When Pat was selling his extended exhaust pipes, he charged $250.00 for them, but installation and paperwork will vary by plane, experience of the installer, etc. I have a set on my plane and I personally like them, but that is a personal observation. Would I pay $250+ for a plane with them vs with out? All things being equal I probably would. I have a STOL kit on my plane. It came with the plane so I have no idea what it cost to purchase and install. Again I personally like this (no flap gap seals). Some say flap gap seals interfer with the semi Fowler flap (assuming it is a B model) functionality? There are those who feel the other mods are just something to sell and add no value or improvement. I do like the STOL mod, but it may have resulted in a slower airplane?? IMHO

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Keith

I agree with all that has been said about the mods you mentioned. The value of many mods is really in the heart of the beholder.

If you would want the mods yourself you will see more value in them. If you don't want the mods they can actually detract from the value.

I will call the one piece windshield and the Bartones a neutral mod. I could take them or leave them. I wouldn't pay more money for either of them.

The gap seals I might not even want. The seals on a 170 probably make the plane slightly (2 or 3 mph) faster but at the expense of flap performance. Flap performance is pretty high on my list of NEAT things so I'd call this a negative mod. Not that I wouldn't buy a 170 with Gap seals.

Having said all this I might think that a plane with these mods already installed assuming you wanted them and planned to buy them anyway, might be worth half their purchase price plus installation cost.

[KG]

Thanks Bruce.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Keith

Something I've noticed over the years and something to keep in mind. It's also what I based my half value on in my last post.

If you buy an airplane with few exceptions then up grade it or mod it with say a new or newer radio, then went to sell it the increase in value is about half. Paint when fresh might be worth 60% more but it also may spoil the sale if the buy doesn't like the paint scheme. This works with popular mods. (the windshield and Barton's are popular) but of course not so much with off the wall mods specially ones that can not easily be reversed.

A fresh overhauled engine is the exception. In the first 200 hours since overhaul you can get pretty much all you money back invested if you sell.

[KG]

I've pretty much come to the same conclusion Bruce. It seems to me that most mods add about fifty percent of their cost to the value of the airplane when they are new. For me, I think the windshield doesn't add much value. It has to have a windshield after all. It's not like something extra and I don't have a particular preference for one windshield over the other. Same with 180 gear legs. I do like the Bartone exhaust though so, for me, I think it is worth something.

The problem I've run into is that it seems that sellers think a mod adds about one hundred fifty percent of it's cost to the resale value. Then they think the value of the mod should not depreciate, even with wear and tear. Maybe I would be the same way if I had spent my time and money on it, but I don't think it is realistic.

Another thing I have run into is sellers balking at the suggestion that I have an idependent mechanic complete an annual inspection on the airplane as a pre-buy. I don't think many people want a mechanic they don't know taking their airplane apart, possibly with good reason. I'm considering compromising on this with a suggestion that their mechanic can do the annual with me present to observe. But the mechanic might not like that idea.

Buying an airplane is more work than I thought it would be....

Thanks again,
Keith

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Keith buying a plane is fun work. There has been several discussions about prebuy/annual inspections prior to purchase. The answer is to agree before hand who pays for what. Damage to the plane due to the inspection, repairing the plane if damage is found and so on. There is nothing wrong with compromise but don't give away the house. Make sure your interest is protected after all after you buy the plane it's yours not the sellers problem.

There may be a mod that has more value today than it did only because it's more difficult to have mods approved today than it was. There aren't many that come to mind though.

180 gear legs that are legally approved might fall into this category IF you want them. 175 wings with bigger tanks might be another but again only IF you want/need the extra fuel.