Wheelies

[djbaker]

Listen to the "leader"

[dacker]

I don't get it DJ.

[N1277D]

My 170A has the 180 gear legs installed. It does very well, either wheel landing or 3 pt, but wheel landings seem to work best for it.

Back in Idaho I've had to land downwind in a narrow canyon due to weather and I was sure it was going to be rolled up in a twisted pile of metal. A down wind wheel landing worked very well with those gear. The wind was gusting to 20 plus mph. With the softer gear, who knows, but I am sure happy with the performance and added margin associated with the latter model gear legs and would not go back to the more springy type.

[hilltop170]

Dacker/David-
Suggesting 70 mph for wheel landing approaches was intended for folks learning how to be consistent with wheel landings. I found 70 mph gives a slightly nose down pitch attitude that can be held right down to the ground then just level out like you're doing a low pass at 1" off the ground. Ease the power back and touch down while holding that level attitude without flaring or trying to pin it on.

Once the mains are on, apply just the slightest amount of forward pressure to hold them down and give good braking traction if needed. Again, everything is about finesse and smooth control inputs. If you bounce, there is still some airspeed to do a go-around and you're not struggling to climb, just push the power in and go.

It takes awhile to learn where the wheels are and when they are going to touch on a wheel landing. Of course the sight picture is much different than in a three-point approach and you just have to learn the difference by doing it.

70 mph helps correct the tendency to flare and get the tail too low which causes problems with bouncing. Approach at less than 70 mph and the pitch attitude is too high also increasing the bouncing tendency.

It's best to practice wheel landings on calm days or at least with light steady winds. Crosswinds just make it harder and crosswind wheel landings are a whole other discussion.

Shortest landing is not the object with this exercise, smooth, consistent wheel landings is. Sure, you're going to burn a little more rubber at touchdown but 70 mph just seems to be a good place to start. As the pilot becomes more comfortable with wheel landings, the approach speed can be reduced.

[dacker]

I see your point Richard. I can do wheelies all day long in smooth conditions (OK sure, I botch one every now and then ), give me a crosswind and forget it. Before last year ground handling was crazy, then I realigned my axles... boy what a difference!
I am open to suggestions from anyone that can consistently wheel an A model in gusty crosswind conditions. I usually have to chicken out and assume three point attitude because the gusts start tossing me around too much for a wing low one wheel touch down. I am usually alone and pretty light, this probably doesn't help.
David

[cessna170bdriver]

...Once the mains are on, apply just the slightest amount of forward pressure to hold them down and give good breaking traction if needed.

I may have told this story here before, but I learned to wheel land my 170 while sitting on a barstool with a beer in my hand.

Once upon a time about 15 years ago, after all the airplanes were put away and the hangar doors were closed, a flight instructor and I decided to end the day with a cold one. The conversation got around to wheel landings, and I mentioned to him that I'd had my 170 for 10 years and hadn't been able to learn consistent wheel landings. His theory was that many pilots have a mental block against pushing down elevator while the tail is in the air. To get past this, he suggested that once stabilized on final at whatever speed you choose (70 works for me), to roll in about a half turn of nose down trim and apply back pressure on the elevator to maintain that speed. When you get close to the ground, increase the back pressure just enough to keep from flying into the runway, but not enough to three-point. Once the mains touch, just relax the back pressure, and let the trim "pin it on". This gives you the sight picture without having to conciously push the nose down. After you've done it enough and get used to what a wheel landing "looks like" you can do it without "cheating" with the trim. Without any in-airplane instruction, I tried his method and it worked for me the very next time I flew, and to this day my wheel landings are more consistent than my three-pointers.

Miles

[Cooper]

Dave,

I would like the procedure if it is easy to send to me. Maybe you could just post it in the Pilot Lounge and members could simply copy it. That way you don't have to send it out to several individuals.

I really like this organization.

Thanks in advance.

Remel R Cooper

[AR Dave]

I've told how I learned to wheel land also, so I'll summarize!
Didn't have a license (Alaska) - never wheel landed - tower radioed and informed that tail wheel had fallen out of the sky - touched her on runway and rolled until lifting off the 1st time - intended to do this 3 times - let her settle on and rolled down the runway 2nd time, started backing off throttle, backed off more, and more - pushed the yoke forward to hold the tail up each time I reduced throttle - before I knew it I was holding tail up and rolling fairly slow - held tail up as long as possible until stopped. My first wheel landing!

The trick to fine tuning a wheel landing is gently pulling the yoke back a few seconds and then releasing to neutral just before contact.

[sloPoke]

I like AR Dave's explanation. I don't push. When the wheels touch the drag of the tires reduces the angle of attack slightly and holds it on. If you start using brakes you actually start going to back pressure to hold it from going nose down from the extra drag of the brakes.
Charlie

[iowa]

there's no secret method.
i've done it for years,
well since i've flown TD's ('78)
it just takes practice.
my brother in Mn and i
have contests to see who can
make the smooth'est ones out of 10.
by the end of the day,
we can both greese them on.
but if you don't do one for awhile,
you will get rusty, but, in my opinion,
will never forget how to do one.
d

[Bill Rusk]

I absolutely can not believe you guys are wheel landing this plane at 70MPH. That is insane.

New guys, do NOT try or do this. You have so much energy you are going to wrap things up in a ball.

Bill

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Bill

I can't speak for others here but doubt if the speed is actually 70 at actual wheel touch. I know I for one am not looking at my airspeed indicator as I touch down.

But a higher approach speed than normal, which is about 70, down to about that two foot level keeps the airplane in the two point attitude rather than tail low. I usually only use 3 notches of flaps and what ever increased speed that gives me over the 4 notch. My plane being a B model with the larger flaps.

As one gets more comfortable with wheel landings slower approach speeds can be accomplished without problem.

[GAHorn]

...I can't speak for others here but doubt if the speed is actually 70 at actual wheel touch. I know I for one am not looking at my airspeed indicator as I touch down. ....

Anyone who's seen the Fenstermacher - Petit Jean video will realize why. Airspeed indicators don't register that slow.

[iowa]

i've done wheel landings at 70mph and faster,
and never had a problem.
in fact, i think the difficulties start at slower speeds with TDs
if one bounces off one wheel
while doing a 3-point landing at slow speed,
the odds for a successful recovery are less
than if the same happened during a wheel landing
at a higher speed.
i consider wheel landings safer
and perfer them over 3PL.
almost all the ww II airplanes used wheel landings.
i'd like to see s.o. land a DC3 using 3PL!
iowa

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Each model airplane will have it's own characteristics which will lend itself toward on type on landing over the other. I'm under the impression you never 3 point a DC3 but could be way off.

As for the best type or safest landing type I believe it is the one the pilot is more comfortable and confident completing.