They are going fast.

[N2865C]

The last real antique fly-in in N. California IMHO (run by pilots-for pilots) has been canceled this year due to insurance costs. It's a shame, the good ones are going fast.
http://www.antiqueflyin.com/

[GAHorn]

What is it that folks can't simply operate under their own insurance and liabilities? If I were to host/sponsor such a fly in and liabilities were a huge issue, it'd be a fairly simple thing to get all attendees to name the sponsor as an additional named insured. It cost me $80 to get that done when I participated in such an event that had that as a requirement. Anyone operating an airplane to such an event should have liability anyways (or wouldn't be welcome.)
Just my view.

[N2865C]

This was not a club type fly-in with 30 or 40 planes. It was a big event with hundreds of fly-in attendees over 3 days, the concessions and facility's to supply them, a temporary tower, 2 big dinners and breakfasts, an awards ceremony and a big turnout by the locals. It was the kind of fly-in that despite it's size (although it has gotten a lot smaller over the last number of years) where you were greeted warmly and sincerely thanked for coming. That kind of fly-in is getting scarce out in the Northwest. If you think you have some information that might help them it would be great if you could contact them and share your ideas.

[GAHorn]

It's interesting to see how some folks get all wrapped around the axle when things get big. Dave Mason never seems to have any problems each year when he hosts his fly ins at Reklaw. Last couple of years over 500 planes attended, and Dave never seems bothered, nor does anybody else.
Two years ago a buddy of mine lost control of his Stinson while rolling out and ended up all over someone else's airplane (Luscombe?) and they simply exchanged insurance company info and bought a couple rolls of duct-tape to get home. It was a sad thing to see happen, but everyone was responsible and shook hands and heads and did the right thing.
It just seems to get unnecessarily complicated when folks get scared to go outside because lawyers might be out there standing around in case the sky falls.

[hilltop170]

Like lots of other pilots, I'm faced with similar decisions on a regular basis. I'm torn both ways between the liability and friendships.

I'll take a friend from the "lower 48" flying just because they are a friend and show them scenery that is National Geographic quality. I do it because they are a friend and I want to do it. Then they go home and tell their other friends about it. Next thing I know, I'm getting emails asking if I would take so-and-so for a ride when they come to Alaska. I don't know so-and-so and I'm not in the air taxi business. The world is full of good guys who would like a ride but you have to draw a line somewhere.

Sure, I would like to share a flight with as many people as possible but the problem is I'm at full risk if anything happens. It's always a hard call whether or not to do it. Since 99.44% of the population has no clue what it costs to make a flight like that, not only in expense but time the frustration is just increased. Often we'll get back and they hand me a $20 bill and say, "Thanks a lot, we sure enjoyed it". I just burned 15 gallons of gas plus the time on the plane. Or at best they agree to pay for fuel then gasp when they see the bill.

So I usually tell them to go find an air taxi who is in the business and let it go at that. I don't really enjoy saying it but if they really want to go, they can decide if it's worth it to pay up front. I can't charge them a fee for a flight, or tell them this is going to cost $200 or whatever, I can only share expenses with passengers. Otherwise I'm an illegal air taxi. It's just not worth it.

[GAHorn]

I know what you mean, Richard!
I've taken two folks from work up flying in 146YS. One of them I let fly a little, and he took advantage beyond courtesy and spent 3 hours and 12 "arrivals" (horrible abuses of the airplane, actually, as he continually insisted the "next one will be better") on my little airplane, and when we landed to re-fill with gas, he occupied himself with the FBO bulletin board and didn't even offer to replace the fuel.
The other, a genuine friend, (Bob Lavery, who also joined TIC170A even though he owns a Tri-Pacer) , not only bought all the gas used to develop a right-seater course for TIC170A, but paid for additional fuel to get me back home from the destination, donated three days of his time to TIC170A for the right-seater's course at GLS convention, ... and he also later gave me a gift-card for free fuel he'd won at Oshkosh. He could have used that in his own airplane!
It's more generosity and liability than most folks realize, when they are given an airplane ride. But that's what makes us all better people for it. (I really admire the sacrifice that many of our members make for the "Young Eagles" programs.)

[4-Shipp]

I thought I'd share June's and my perspective towards giving rides. When we made the decision to invest in 9CP in 2001, it was agreed that we would share her with as many people as we could. That has been the best part of ownership so far.
We have owned 9CP for almost 7 years and a quick look through my journey log showed over 200 different people that we have had the privilege of taking flying. Many of these people have gone more than once. Now I know that that is not any kind of record and I am sure many of you have eclipsed that number 10 fold. You are good people!

I am in what I consider the fortunate situation of budgeting for 100 hours a year, yet each year flying significantly less. Consequently, there has always been gas money when the opportunity to take someone up presents itself.

This has also left us in the fortunate position of never having to take gas money from anyone since we have owned the airplane. Even when the purpose of the flight is to take someone an hour or two away to pick up their plane we have not taken gas money, even when offered. I figured the opportunity to return the favor will happen eventually. The best deal would be if that person used the money to buy gas to take someone up in their plane.

I do, however, strictly control the who, when and what of the rides. I have bluntly refused to give anyone a tail wheel endorsement or any other instruction in our 170. I'm not insured, the abuse on the plane would be more than I want, and few would want to pay what it truly was worth if I ever decided to charge. The biggest fear about giving "dual" is once you start, where do you stop? Some folks that have asked I wouldn't let drive my car to, let alone fly my airplane. When asked, I simply tell them I do not do instruction in my airplane. No explanations...just a sorry, but thanks for asking. I let just about everyone who is willing take the wheel during the flights. I have let a few experienced pilots land her, but I intervene early if required and if I determine that they are in over their heads, then the pattern work is over. No one has gone away mad yet.

As I read over this it looks as if I have not made my point, which is this: I really like to fly, and sharing that with another is a blessing. I am doubly blessed that my bride likes it as well, and that she is an equal and supporting partner in our venture to share our little peace of heaven. In the occasional situations where I feel someone may be trying to take advantage, I have learned to politely say no.

Someday, maybe sooner that any of us would ever imagine, the privilege of giving rides in our classic round tails my be gone forever. I want to share it while I still can.

It is off to bed now as we have to get up early. One of June's co-workers is coming by at 7 am tomorrow with her 18 year old son. We are giving him his first airplane ride for his birthday.

Bruce

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Bruce Shipp, I'm with you except I can't afford to budget 100 hours a year. When I do fly I want someone else in the plane to enjoy the ride with me and it's always better if they've never flown before.

I do Young Eagles when I can and even Old Eagles (their parents) when the kids are done. All who will get a chance to wiggle the yoke or sticks.

I'm a bit more liberal providing some tail wheel experience to pilots with out any than you have been but probably shouldn't be. After all someone was kind enough to give me the experience. When I do get a request for a full tail wheel transition I say sure, just pay my insurance, and hourly rate and we can start any time. No one has taken me up on the insurance part yet.