SPEAKING OF DORKS, I THINK I'M ONE

[SUNDBY]

If anyone can look at the page 110, fig 67 elevator control system of the 170b ipc and explain how that routing of the control cables do not give you reverse elevator controls I would love to hear from you. Sundby

[n2582d]

Sundby,
I've got to agree with you; looking at the ipc it appears that the elevator controls are reversed. But look at the C-170A IPC (Fig. 47, pg. 86). There the cables cross which makes more sense. The straight 170 depicts the cable run slightly different from them later models.

Years ago I heard about a mechanic getting the aileron control cables reversed on a Bonanza. It was a very short first flight. That's why I taught students to stick their thumbs up when doing the control check on preflight. Thumbs up toward the aileron that goes up.

C-170 CLICK TO ENLARGE

C-170A CLICK TO ENLARGE

C-170B CLICK TO ENLARGE

[SUNDBY]

After carefully installing my new cables, the exitment came to a screeching halt to find out the control movement was not what was desired. I also proceeded to draw those little arrows only to add to the head scratching. I'm the only one to discover this?

[Brad Brady]

After carefully installing my new cables, the exitment came to a screeching halt to find out the control movement was not what was desired. I also proceeded to draw those little arrows only to add to the head scratching. I'm the only one to discover this?

I'm sorry...I'm not getting what the problem is....if you are talking the elevators have reversed then you have run the cables incorrectly.....if not ..and you are not getting the travel you need.....that is to be expected, you need to re rig to tcds after any change....like I said I'm not sure I'm reading this right....Brad

[SUNDBY]

I got it the second time, after first rigging it like the manual showed. Two tries and alot of frustration. Sundby

[4stripes]

Apparently the ailerons can be rigged reversed as well. My first 'chief pilot' crashed in a c185 test flight. He survived to pass on the advice to check proper control direction doing flight control checks!
Cheers Eric

[wingnut]

Using parts catalogs as reference when performing maintenance has resulted in many accidents. There was a twin Cessna, I believe a 310 that a mechanic routed the aileron cables exactly like the IPC showed, which was reversed. I found the NTSB report on this accident a few years ago, and the report specifically stated one of the causes was the manufacturers manual was in correct, among other causes; pilots and mechanics failure to insure correct surface deflection. I can't find the report now, but did find another, N4808B which is similar but not nearly as detailed. The FAA published a memorandum stating that the use of parts catalogs is a no-no, when performing maintenance. They are a "for reference of part numbers only" and cannot be used to support order of assembly, position or direction of parts, nor routing of cables or plumbing.

As an interesting side note, I heard a story years ago from an elderly pilot friend. We did alot of work for a man from out around El Paso. In the late 80's we rebuilt a 182 for him. For the life of me, I can't remember his last name. We all referred to him as "Doc Willie", and I did meet him a couple times when he came to pick up aircraft. He's passed on now, but the story goes that on a bet he reversed all the controls to prove he could fly around the patch and land. I believe this was in a Pawnee. I wasn't there, and have no first hand info if this is true.

[GAHorn]

While flying pipeline patrol in the early '70's I occasionally flew C-120/140's. Once, out of curiosity, I slid my butt over to the center of the aircraft and placed my left foot on the pilot's right rudder pedal...and my right foot on the copilot's left rudder pedal... and attempted a few turns. They were disasters. Very difficult to change the technique. (And, for the history buffs.... that was the way Clyde Cessna originally built all his early airplanes, and for a few years the purchaser could specify his rudder pedals to be either righty-lefty or vice-versa.)

[wingnut]

Well, "Doc Willie" was definately old enough to have had some opportunities for this rudder pedal option. Maybe it was just the rudder pedals reversed and the story kept getting exagerated over the years

[johneeb]

For those of us who want to experiment with Reverse Rudder Control I suggest the Flexible Flyer Sled (below).

Flexible flyer Sled.jpg (6.63 KiB) Viewed 5575 times

[Dennis]

Sundby: I recently replaced the control cables in (9er 1 Charlie) and you are right about the IPC being an incorrect depiction of elevator cable routing. From the fwd bellcrank the cables come together under the floor and travel aft one above the other, then travel through fairleads and emerge side by side. Now which one goes up and which goes down? The answer is ......... The cable that attaches to the fwd bellcrank upper attach goes to the aft bellcrank lower attach. I'm not home to refer to my notes and pictures but I think this is correct. If you have further questions keep talking here or PM me, Dennis

[DaveF]

For those of us who want to experiment with Reverse Rudder Control I suggest the Flexible Flyer Sled (below).

Flexible flyer Sled.jpg

John, that's funny, because when I learned to fly, my only prior experience with feet steering was Flexible Flyers and homemade wooden go-karts. It took me the longest time to get used to "normal" rudder action. My instructor, who had zero time on Flexible Flyers, didn't understand my problem. Jeez, what kind of idiot can't taxi an airplane straight??

[W.J.Langholz]

For those of us who want to experiment with Reverse Rudder Control I suggest the Flexible Flyer Sled (below).

Flexible flyer Sled.jpg

John
Still have mine if you want to come and practice

I was going to redo it a few years back but my wife wants it for Christmas decorations, says it's worth more left alone

W.

[johneeb]

Willie,
Is that modern rope PMAd or did you use a 337 with a field approval?

One of the real hazards of one of these rigs is keeping your fingers from under the runners.

[blueldr]

As I remember, a lot of the "Ultralights" used to ground steer in the manner of a Flexible Flyer Sled.