brake calipers

russ murri · Post by **russ murri** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:09 pm

Is there a right or wrong side to install the cleveland brake cylinder ? I've seen them on the front side of the axle and the rear. my friend has a ''B'' model with the single puck brakes in front of the axle. my Ragwing has double puck brakes on the rear of axle. Can he change his to the rear?

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 1:58 am

I think either way will work.

One argument for putting them in front of the axle is
if you put them behind, dirt & "stuff" can make it's way
easier into the nooks & crannies of the calipers.

Mine are in front of the axle for that very reason.

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 5:57 am

I have double-pucks,mounted in front. Where would the bleed valve be if they were mounted in back? Down low,subject to damage. I have seen airplanes with brakes mounted in such a way that if the tire were to go flat,the brakes would drag on the ground. Not too good.

Eric

spiro · Post by **spiro** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:36 am

the Cleveland installation drawing for double pucks shows the caliper mounted on the front.

Roesbery · Post by **Roesbery** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 5:45 am

You can put the bleed valve up or down either way the brakes are mounted. Most planes around here have the brake line entering the top and the bleed valve on the bottom. Then the fluid is pumped into the bleed valve with a squirt can and short hose to fill the system, automatically bleeding the whole works as it is filled.

Post by **GAHorn** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:04 pm

These concerns are without merit. The brake cylinder mounted in front will have any mud/debris picked up by the disc brought to it by the disc's rotation and neatly deposited within the caliper. It could be just as easily argued that the forward mounted caliper does not allow cooling air to get to the linings. (In other words, such concerns are not large.)
The bleed fitting is on the bottom in either application, and it is not likely to be damaged more in either location. The brake line should always enter the top of the cylinder and the bleed fitting should always be on the bottom. (How else would it be capable of draining the cylinder or properly be fed fluid to expell air out the top?)
The wheel fairing backing/mounting plate is already cut for the cylinder in either a fwd or rear position, and that is the limiting factor. In other words, it makes no difference whatsoever whether it is fwd or rear, from a practical standpoint. (But mine is mounted on the rear because the orginal Goodyears were, and because they create less drag there due to the brake line being hidden from relative wind by the gear leg.)

spiro · Post by **spiro** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:48 am

>> it makes no difference whatsoever whether it is fwd or rear

sorry, but I've got to disagree w/ Geo on this one. If you install Cleveland brakes on a 170 you're doing it on the basis of their STC, which clearly calls for installation in the front. I think if it didn't matter they wouldn't have specified a position. (caveat, for sure on the dbl pucks, I don't have single-puck paper handy)

does it make sense the "wheel fairing backing/mounting plate is ...the limiting factor"? And how does the position of the original Goodyears matter?

ps - George *is* right most of the time <g>.

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:58 pm

The advice I got (to put them in front of the axle) was given
to me by a good friend who operated numerous 180s, 185s,
Beavers and even a Grumman Mallard in Alaska for years.
Figured the advice he gave was worth listening to, as by & large,
all they land on up there is dirt, gravel & mud. This gentleman
also owned a couple of 170s for years.

Anyway, I think I'll leave mine in front.

On another note, on the double-puck brakes I purchased (2nd
hand) to put on my 170, one of the bleed nipples was bent
back (as if a rock or something hit it) so they aren't completely
immune to damage....

All that being said, if your 170 wears panties, no big deal where
you put the calipers.

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:36 pm

Sorry, Spiro.
We are going to differ on this. The position of the Goodyears doesn't matter at all, unless one wishes to make as few changes as possible to the original airplane. My Cleveland installation does not make any instructions to reposition the brakes to the front of the axle, so I do not believe it appropriate to do so. Double pucks are not approved on 170's (Unless some field approval or other basis, stc, etc., is provided.) If your backing plate is already cut on the rear, then leaving the cut in the rear and only modifying it per the Cleveland instructions is what I believe correct, ...especially if it allows the brake line to continue to live on the aft side of the landing gear leg rather than add drag and expose it to debris/grass/etc. by taking it over or under the gearleg to a forward caliper.
Spiro, does your STC actually apply to the 170? Or has it been field approved for it.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:33 am

I have a copy of the Cleveland STC for my double-puck brakes (kit # 199-62) stapled to the 337. It doesn't mention caliper position,but it does reference a couple Cleveland installation drawings which I don't have a copy of. No doubt the drawing do specify location.
My double-pucks were field approved for my 170,on the basis of being installed on 180 legs (they are STC'd for 180's).
I think the bleed nipple is in a vulnerable spot on the bottom of a rear-mounted caliper.

Eric

PS: I like Bela's comment about "panties"...............

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:04 am

Yes, I believe that double-pucks are a common 180/185 brake assy that has numerous field approvals for installs on other aircraft including 170's. I have the Cleveland drawings, and they show the backing plate, and the torque plate, and the caliper/cylinder's and the relationship to each other, but.... they do not show the relationship to the fore/aft position. I.E., you can view the drawing, but there is no mention or illustration that shows the direction of flight of the aircraft, so you don't know whether the brake is fwd or aft of the axle. Since that is so, and since the original location was aft, ...and since there is not instruction within the Cleveland STC that says to move it from the factory location,... is why I believe the aft position is correct...unless there's some other approval. (Thought: So, ...does the field approval anyone has actually specify the caliper may be or should be moved to the forward position? If not,...then what is the approval basis? Also, I suspect that the double-puck caliper, being much longer than the single-puck, needed to be placed forward due to the proximity of the lower surface/bleed valve to the terrain,...so that type caliper was placed there on the 180/185 and should remain there on other installations.) From a practical standpoint, tho',...I doubt it makes any real difference with the single puck.

spiro · Post by **spiro** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:30 am

my double pucks are installed by Field Approval of STC SA63GL for the "Installation of....Conversion Kit Parts Lists 199-62...". The Parts List includes pn 50-36, Installation Drawing - which most certainly specifies forward mounting.

again, I don't have the single puck paper handy - maybe it doesn't specify fwd or aft.

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:22 pm

N170BP wrote:
All that being said, if your 170 wears panties, no big deal where
you put the calipers.

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

Aviatrix?