Autofuel...how do you guys get it in the tanks?
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Might keep in mind that some auto insurance companys frown on fuel tanks in the back of a pickup. And public airports are becoming more of a pain as to where or if you can leave a trailer mounted tank on the airport. Might want to talk to the airport manager to see what hoops you need to hop through before you get set up. Usually, where there is a will, there is a way.
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
Given the "common knowledge" that mogas doesn't have much of a shelf life,a 500 gallon purchase only makes sense if you fly a whole lot (!) or if several pilots are in on the deal. I would have thought an approved above-ground tank set-up would be more costly,$700 seems pretty cheap for what you'd be getting. But it's only practical if you have your own airstrip--you probably wouldn't be able to have one on a public airport. At least not my public airport--without special permits,insurance,ground lease,& any other red tape they could think up. Whoever has the fuel sales contract would no doubt kick up a fuss,too.
I think I'll stick to the jerry cans,thank you,or maybe a pickup mounted rig. The local Costco is selling 87 octane for about $1.63,after my tax rebate my cost is about $1.55. It's worth a few pennies more for fresh gas,and not having to pony up $700 all at once.
Eric
I think I'll stick to the jerry cans,thank you,or maybe a pickup mounted rig. The local Costco is selling 87 octane for about $1.63,after my tax rebate my cost is about $1.55. It's worth a few pennies more for fresh gas,and not having to pony up $700 all at once.
Eric
I use a 55 gallon drum mounted in a small single axle utility trailer. I went to Tractor Supply Co. and purchased a 12 VDC pump that screws right into the fitting on the drum. Off of the pump I have a water-blocking fuel filter going into a length of fuel hose, an inline LCD fuel meter, and finally a standard fuel pump nozzle. 12 VDC comes from a small garden tractor battery that is contained in a closed box hard mounted to the trailer floor and maintained with an onboard trickle charger. I fill the tank to 50 gallons, adding my Marvel Mystery Oil, and then store the trailer in my hangar. Using a long enough piece of fuel hose, I can leave the trailer in one place out of the way and fuel the airplane without needing to move the trailer around. On the tax refund, what state office would be the point-of-contact for getting a refund???
John, 2734C in Summit Point, WV
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
Some points to ponder, that I'm sure you've probably already considered... Gasoline fumes settle in still air. Electrical devices in use (such as a trickle charger) near the floor within a short distance of gasoline in storage might be a consideration. Quantity gasoline storage within bldgs/hangars are likely addressed by local fire-code. Violation (if any) of applicable fire codes may pose considerable liability risks.
Not a criticism. Just a thought. I know I couldn't withstand any lawsuits from neighbors for loss of hangar/aircraft such as was experienced in Conroe, where 13 aircraft (including some irreplaceble warbirds) were consumed in a hangar fire due to improperly stored gasoline by one of the tenants.
(Everyone here does ground their aircraft while in the hangar, right?)
Much to my surprise, my county has such a fire code that is applicable even to folks like me who live way out in the boonies. Apparently it's designed to diminish the danger of range-fires. Any quantity more than 5 gals. of flammable fuel within a portable container other than the original fuel compartments of a vehicle or farm implement stored within a structure, or any quantity stored within a non-portable container must be bonded to a proper electrical ground consisting of a zinc/copper rod not less than 3/8" diameter driven 8' into the earth. (Vehicle is defined as automobile, truck, or motorcycle and specifically excludes aircraft and marine equipment.) 
So my airplane and my boat must be electrically grounded to earth when in the garage or hangar.
Your local fire chief might be a source of info.
Not a criticism. Just a thought. I know I couldn't withstand any lawsuits from neighbors for loss of hangar/aircraft such as was experienced in Conroe, where 13 aircraft (including some irreplaceble warbirds) were consumed in a hangar fire due to improperly stored gasoline by one of the tenants.
(Everyone here does ground their aircraft while in the hangar, right?)
Much to my surprise, my county has such a fire code that is applicable even to folks like me who live way out in the boonies. Apparently it's designed to diminish the danger of range-fires. Any quantity more than 5 gals. of flammable fuel within a portable container other than the original fuel compartments of a vehicle or farm implement stored within a structure, or any quantity stored within a non-portable container must be bonded to a proper electrical ground consisting of a zinc/copper rod not less than 3/8" diameter driven 8' into the earth. (Vehicle is defined as automobile, truck, or motorcycle and specifically excludes aircraft and marine equipment.) So my airplane and my boat must be electrically grounded to earth when in the garage or hangar.Your local fire chief might be a source of info.
Last edited by GAHorn on Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rudymantel
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:03 pm
I agonized over this when I bought my 170. I keep my plane in a T hangar on a public airport and the fire code forbids storing fuel in the hangar. After investigating many options I finally decided on the simplest method, fueling with a ladder from 5 gallon containers. It's good exercise and can be done by one person with no exotic equipment.
Here in South Florida it's usually humid enough that static sparks don't fly. I use- horrors ! plastic containers bought at Home Depot. In dry climates I'd definitelly use metal containers, grounded to the airplane.
For what it's worth-
Rudy
Here in South Florida it's usually humid enough that static sparks don't fly. I use- horrors ! plastic containers bought at Home Depot. In dry climates I'd definitelly use metal containers, grounded to the airplane.
For what it's worth-
Rudy
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
The October 2002 issue of Kitplanes magazine has a pretty good "how-to" article about building a trailer-mounted refueling rig. The author put one together using pretty much all mail-order components for just over $600, with 55 gallon capacity & a 12 volt electric pump system.
Pretty good article,looked very do-able for anyone who's at all mechanically talented.
I still think I'll stick to my jerrycans,though.
Eric
Pretty good article,looked very do-able for anyone who's at all mechanically talented.
I still think I'll stick to my jerrycans,though.
Eric
Yes George, I do have a grounding lead that is attached to the transfer pump. I make sure this lead is attached to my exhaust pipe before the pump is turned on. My trickle charger is one of those sealed "potted" units that could actually be submerged. No chance of fumes getting to any internal component. Yes, I do smell the gasoline in the hangar as the drum warms up and fumes vent overboard, but my hangar is so well ventilated that there is no problem here. We just bought a lot on a new airpark here, and as soon as our new hangar is built, I will begin storing the fuel outside as I'll have many more electrical goodies going inside my nice new hangar....don't want to start my first residential airpark experience off with the wrong kind of bang
John, 2734C in Summit Point, WV
Joe thinks I have long answers? Get a load of AOPA's response to this question.
How is one to safely fuel a plane other than by filling it up in stages using small cans, unless one has sufficient means to buy one’s own tanker truck? And even so, how is one to fuel one’s plane at an en-route airport which does not have an auto gas pump? Carry additional fuel (and weight) on-board in more small cans? I don’t think so.
Answer:
The possibility of static discharge when using portable fuel containers is well known, and has been documented in both aviation and automotive publications. Persons using portable fuel containers should always take precautions to reduce if not eliminate the possibility of static spark. Hear are some suggestions that will help reduce the hazard:
Always place fuel containers on the ground when filling them at the pump. NEVER fill the containers while they are in your car trunk or truck bed! Also, always keep the fuel nozzle in contact with the container while fuel is flowing, and for a couple of seconds after the fuel flow is stopped. This will minimize the static electricity buildup and offer a path to drain the static charge away, either to the ground or through the fuel pump hose (which is grounded to protect against static buildup).
When transferring the fuel from the portable container into your airplane, boat, lawn mower, or whatever, the very best practice is to ground both the can and the vehicle/implement. If you have a metal portable container, this is not difficult to do. If you have a plastic container, grounding is a bit more difficult, but a minor modification of the container will help. Here’s one method:
To properly ground the plastic fuel can, you’ll need to add a conductor of some sort. There are a couple of ways to do this, but my favorite is to get a length of “grounding strap†(a flat, woven metal strap) from the local auto parts store (or from an aviation supply house). This length of grounding strap must be long enough to run down the inside of the can from the filler neck to the bottom, and then all the way along the length of the bottom of the can (inside the can). You’ll also need a brass screw, a couple of large diameter washers and an appropriate nut. The screw should be long enough to pass through the can, the grounding strap, the two washers and the nut and still have enough length left to clip a ground wire to it.
Drill a hole in the can, just below the filler neck opening. This hole should be JUST big enough to get the brass screw through, and should be in a location where you can touch it by reaching down through the filler neck with your fingers. Also drill a hole in the grounding strap for the screw to pass through. Feed the grounding strap down through the filler neck so that it runs down from the filler neck and across the bottom of the can. Then put a large diameter washer on the screw, pass the screw through the grounding strap and then through the hole you made in the can.
You’ll need some kind of fuel-proof sealer to put around the screw where it passes through the plastic can. Again, your auto parts store will be the best source for this. Put some sealer on the screw where it comes out of the can, then put another large diameter washer on and secure with the nut. Now you’ve provided a path for the static to get from the can to the aircraft, through the screw and a short “jumper†wire that you’ll clip to the screw and to the filler neck of the aircraft. Of course, this will only work properly if you then ground the aircraft itself to a good ground source. A well pipe or a copper rod driven into the ground will work well for this, so you’ll have to make a ground wire to go from the chosen grounding source to the aircraft itself. Even better, you can also run a ground wire from the grounding source to your fuel can. That way, the static electricity will have multiple paths to use to get to ground.
This method can also be used when transferring fuel to your lawn mower, boat, or whatever unit you have that needs to be refueled from a portable container. If there’s no method available for grounding the fuel container, at least always be sure to keep the outlet nozzle of the container in contact with the fuel filler neck on the vehicle/implement at all times while fuel is flowing. Also, whenever possible, keep the end of the nozzle below the level of the fuel in the tank being filled. All this will help minimize static buildup.
Never carry fuel in portable containers in the cabin of the aircraft. If you feel you need to carry a portable can, so as to go off-airport to get auto fuel at an en-route stop, you should carry appropriate grounding wires along as well. This way, you can properly ground your container and your aircraft while you transfer fuel. >From a safety standpoint, rather than carrying a fuel container in the aircraft with you, it’s probably a better idea just to use aviation fuel if auto fuel isn’t available on the airport.
How is one to safely fuel a plane other than by filling it up in stages using small cans, unless one has sufficient means to buy one’s own tanker truck? And even so, how is one to fuel one’s plane at an en-route airport which does not have an auto gas pump? Carry additional fuel (and weight) on-board in more small cans? I don’t think so.
Answer:
The possibility of static discharge when using portable fuel containers is well known, and has been documented in both aviation and automotive publications. Persons using portable fuel containers should always take precautions to reduce if not eliminate the possibility of static spark. Hear are some suggestions that will help reduce the hazard:
Always place fuel containers on the ground when filling them at the pump. NEVER fill the containers while they are in your car trunk or truck bed! Also, always keep the fuel nozzle in contact with the container while fuel is flowing, and for a couple of seconds after the fuel flow is stopped. This will minimize the static electricity buildup and offer a path to drain the static charge away, either to the ground or through the fuel pump hose (which is grounded to protect against static buildup).
When transferring the fuel from the portable container into your airplane, boat, lawn mower, or whatever, the very best practice is to ground both the can and the vehicle/implement. If you have a metal portable container, this is not difficult to do. If you have a plastic container, grounding is a bit more difficult, but a minor modification of the container will help. Here’s one method:
To properly ground the plastic fuel can, you’ll need to add a conductor of some sort. There are a couple of ways to do this, but my favorite is to get a length of “grounding strap†(a flat, woven metal strap) from the local auto parts store (or from an aviation supply house). This length of grounding strap must be long enough to run down the inside of the can from the filler neck to the bottom, and then all the way along the length of the bottom of the can (inside the can). You’ll also need a brass screw, a couple of large diameter washers and an appropriate nut. The screw should be long enough to pass through the can, the grounding strap, the two washers and the nut and still have enough length left to clip a ground wire to it.
Drill a hole in the can, just below the filler neck opening. This hole should be JUST big enough to get the brass screw through, and should be in a location where you can touch it by reaching down through the filler neck with your fingers. Also drill a hole in the grounding strap for the screw to pass through. Feed the grounding strap down through the filler neck so that it runs down from the filler neck and across the bottom of the can. Then put a large diameter washer on the screw, pass the screw through the grounding strap and then through the hole you made in the can.
You’ll need some kind of fuel-proof sealer to put around the screw where it passes through the plastic can. Again, your auto parts store will be the best source for this. Put some sealer on the screw where it comes out of the can, then put another large diameter washer on and secure with the nut. Now you’ve provided a path for the static to get from the can to the aircraft, through the screw and a short “jumper†wire that you’ll clip to the screw and to the filler neck of the aircraft. Of course, this will only work properly if you then ground the aircraft itself to a good ground source. A well pipe or a copper rod driven into the ground will work well for this, so you’ll have to make a ground wire to go from the chosen grounding source to the aircraft itself. Even better, you can also run a ground wire from the grounding source to your fuel can. That way, the static electricity will have multiple paths to use to get to ground.
This method can also be used when transferring fuel to your lawn mower, boat, or whatever unit you have that needs to be refueled from a portable container. If there’s no method available for grounding the fuel container, at least always be sure to keep the outlet nozzle of the container in contact with the fuel filler neck on the vehicle/implement at all times while fuel is flowing. Also, whenever possible, keep the end of the nozzle below the level of the fuel in the tank being filled. All this will help minimize static buildup.
Never carry fuel in portable containers in the cabin of the aircraft. If you feel you need to carry a portable can, so as to go off-airport to get auto fuel at an en-route stop, you should carry appropriate grounding wires along as well. This way, you can properly ground your container and your aircraft while you transfer fuel. >From a safety standpoint, rather than carrying a fuel container in the aircraft with you, it’s probably a better idea just to use aviation fuel if auto fuel isn’t available on the airport.
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russfarris
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 2:25 am
Auto fuel, YES!!! I just flew four hours on Amoco 87 octane, couldn't tell the difference except 1.32 vs. 2.97 a gallon! I did notice no more white (lead) streaks behind the exhausts, in fact there was no evidence of the black exhaust soot some auto gas users have mentioned. I run my engine 50 degrees rich of peak, BTW.
I found a complete three year old auto-fuel setup that a fellow US Airways drone put together for his Maule; now he doesn't need it since he bought a Mooney 201. A 110 gallon steel tank, 12 volt pump, gas filter with clear housing, 20 feet of hose and a LCD meter readout at a trigger style nozzle, all at a great price. I'm going to mount it on a 4 x 6 trailer from Tractor Supply Co. ( I can also haul my lawn tractor to the shop) and rig up a good grounding system. By the time I'm done it will cost around 600 dollars, but since I fly at least 100 hours a year I should save around 1,400 a year or so.
Thanks for all the ideas and input, guys...I appreciate it very much. This forum is priceless! Russ Farris
I found a complete three year old auto-fuel setup that a fellow US Airways drone put together for his Maule; now he doesn't need it since he bought a Mooney 201. A 110 gallon steel tank, 12 volt pump, gas filter with clear housing, 20 feet of hose and a LCD meter readout at a trigger style nozzle, all at a great price. I'm going to mount it on a 4 x 6 trailer from Tractor Supply Co. ( I can also haul my lawn tractor to the shop) and rig up a good grounding system. By the time I'm done it will cost around 600 dollars, but since I fly at least 100 hours a year I should save around 1,400 a year or so.
Thanks for all the ideas and input, guys...I appreciate it very much. This forum is priceless! Russ Farris
All glory is fleeting...
We have a small beat-up pickup truck with a 45 gallon tank with an electric fuel pump in the back. That means we drive a couple of miles and fill up the tank at the local gas station, then drive back and fill up the airplane. It's not too time-consuming, and we don't have to worry about stale gas that way. It came with the airplane (from John's father), so I don't know how much it would cost, but it's a very workable solution.
-Susan
N3440D
55 170B
TIC170A Member
N3440D
55 170B
TIC170A Member