N-number mystery!

[russfarris]

My 1957 Cessna 172, which has never been restored or repainted still has the original 20 inch wing numbers and two inch tail ones. It's been annualed every year since 1957 (which I think is amazing!) Here's the mystery - there is no evidence that the 12 inch fuselage numbers have EVER been applied, and they were required by 1962. I'm not aware of any exemptions to this rule until the early 1980s. Seven different IAs signed off on this airplane during this period. Has anyone ever heard a similar story??? Russ Farris

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

You know Russ, I knew I was making a mistake in '62 when I directed my studies from the FARs to ABCs in kindergarden. The mistake was relaying on folks studying the FARs at the time to remember what they were rather that learning them myself so I could answer these questions 50 years later.

Seriously I do think it interesting to look back and try to figure out and piece together the hows and whys and history of things, in particular our aircraft history.

If I had to guess I'd say the regulation in '62, probably grandfathered aircraft for a period of time. And then prior to that grandfather time expiring new regulations were written to grandfather those aircraft permanently.

On the other hand your aircraft may have been licensed incorrectly for all those years and my first aircraft was incorrectly licensed for the same time frame and longer with the wrong wings, struts, elevator and a host of about 200 other miscellanies parts or maybe just the wrong data tag. Lots of things happened back then we shake our head at now.

[russfarris]

Actually Bruce, I was in the second grade in 1962, so I don't exactly remember either!

The 12 inch number requirement was one of the first regulations made by the first administrator of the newly formed FAA, General Pete Quesada, a real hard-ass. He insisted on the change, called "buzz numbers" in the air force, to make it easier to nail low-flying offenders. Contrary to what guys think today, the wing numbers are much harder to read from the ground due to orientatation issues - the fuselage numbers are always vertical.

The new regulation was not popular, because the cost of refinishing, ect. Many owners complied using viynl numbers from enterprising companies. The FAA granted a four year period to make the change, from 1958 to 1962. Piper made the change immediately, on the 1958 models. Beech waited till 1960 and Cessna made the change with the 1962 models. After the four year period, no "grandfathering" existed - every small aircraft had to make the change. I've seen 1960s pictures of Staggerwings and Curtis Robins with the billboard numbers. Hard to believe seven IAs blew off what was a very well-known major requirement. Maybe ol' Bluedr can chime in here with what he knows, since he lived through it!

Russ Farris

[Jr.CubBuilder]

Fuselage numbers are required?

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Fuselage numbers are required?

No they are not required under current regulation depending on the vintage of your airplane and use.

For example you can't go to Canada without 12" numbers.

You also can't enter an ADIZ unless you have 12" numbers which for most folks means they would have to fly way off shore outside the ADIZ surrounding the US and then reenter. But for those of us who live and fly around the Washington DC ADIZ it means we can't enter there either.

Jim W. and George, I know you both took the required ADIZ training to fly within 60 nm of DC but did you actually enter the ADIZ without the legal 12" fuselage numbers on your trips south this summer?

[russfarris]

According to the FAA there is no ADIZ between the U.S. and Canada, so 12 inch numbers are not required.

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publicat ... /airspace/

There is an ADIZ between Florida and the Bahamas, so the billboard numbers are required (since apparently we are in danger of being attacked by the Bahamas.) No problem, since I don't fly single-engine over the water (anymore.) I just flew with a guy who ditched a Queen Air off St. Croix about 15 years ago. He got out, inflated his raft and turned around just in time to see the tail slip below the surface. Within 30 minutes he was beating off a shark with the raft's oar. No thanks! Russ Farris

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Actually, according to the FAA there is no ADIZ between the U.S. and Canada, so 12 inch numbers are not required.

Actually isn't it the Canadians who require it.

[GAHorn]

There is no requirement for 12" numbers to cross into/out of Canada, by either authority. The only requirement for our vintage aircraft is if they cross the ADIZ.

There is no requirement for registration numbers to be on the fuselage either. (They must only be on a vertical surface.)

I did not cross any ADIZs near DCA.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Hey I'll bet I can do something with my 170 no other 170 owner/operator can do.



Display my registration number in 12" high characters on a vertical surface OTHER than the fuselage.

[russfarris]

When I sold my 170 (sniff) N8143A a few years ago to an Air Canada captain, the registration was changed to CF-something (the CF was the original Canadian pre-fix) and he re-painted the wing letters and two inch characters on the tail, since Canada appears to mirror the FAA
regarding registration marks on vintage aircraft. Russ Farris

[GAHorn]

Hey I'll bet I can do something with my 170 no other 170 owner/operator can do.



Display my registration number in 12" high characters on a vertical surface OTHER than the fuselage.

I guess I'm being dim ... can you post a pic, so I can get this?

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I guess I'm being dim ... can you post a pic, so I can get this?

(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:

c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high, except the number “1”, which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high, and the letters “M” and “W” which may be as wide as they are high.

(e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than one-fourth of the character width.


Using the pertinent regulations for 12" characters my N-number, N7A would be 27.81 inches wide minimum.George,your N-number N146YS, which has a narrow number 1, would be 51.5 inches wide minimum. The only vertical surface other than the fuselage is the vertical stabilizer and rudder. My number will fit on the stab/rudder, will yours or most others?

[GAHorn]

Aha! (I didn't know your new number.) Member Dick Enright (ME) has N72R, which is almost as narrow.
One of the most unique registration numbers in existence (in my opinion) is on a Bonanza, which is an
older model, NICEly restored with the registration: N 1 C E

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I don't remember yours either George but I have my ways of finding out.

[hilltop170]

Two other N-numbers come to mind;

N7UP was on a green and white Turbo Commander.

A C-195 buddy's wife is named Nila, his 195 N-number is N1LA.