Should be a Law Against This

[W.J.Langholz]

Most of the time I take my ribbing in stride about my nose wheel.....but this is TERRIBLE! Now I can relate to your feelings about the 170

Be Safe and Remember All who have Served.

W.

[sfarringer]

At least it still has two wings, a round engine, and roll-up windows.
But what were they thinking when they put that monstrosity under the nose????????

[GAHorn]

89536516.jpg

...this is TERRIBLE! ...W.

It's not so bad... It looks like it was manufactured so that when it is correctly turned-over it wouldn't contact/hurt the nosewheelpant.

(At least Beech retracted the gear, which should have been done to this thing.)

[LBPilot82]

Well, it USED to be a perfectly good plane. What a shame.

[blueldr]

sfarringer,

You asked "What were they thinking-----"

They were thinking "All right, you SOB, let's see you ground loop this one!"

P.S. Note round engine with mandatory oil spot on floor.

[cessna170bdriver]

It's a crime against nature to put a nosewheel on a biplane. That's all I have to say about that...

[mit]

PLEASE DON'T MAKE ANYMORE LAWS!

[sfarringer]

Well, it USED to be a perfectly good plane. What a shame.

Believe it or not, Waco actually designed it this way. (Waco N series, they didn't make very many.)

[sfarringer]

sfarringer,

You asked "What were they thinking-----"

They were thinking "All right, you SOB, let's see you ground loop this one!"

P.S. Note round engine with mandatory oil spot on floor.

I bet you're right!!
And it's just marking it's territory

[LBPilot82]

It ain't leakin' oil!!!!!

That's just SWEAT from makin' all that horsepower!!!!

[jrenwick]

I'm sympathetic to what WACO was trying to do with this. 80% of my flight hours are in tailwheel types, and I've never damaged an aircraft I was flying (been lucky a few times!). I briefly tried giving primary instruction in my 170, and I've given up on that idea for good. If the student owns the airplane, that's one thing. But if a student wants to learn to fly with me, I'm going to encourage him or her to find someone with a tricycle gear aircraft to learn in. It's so much an easier path to the license, and a safer one. Yes, a tail wheel makes you a more skilled pilot -- but let the student build some hours before trying it. Although tricycles won't do some of the fun things I do with tail-draggers, there's a good reason most aircraft have nose wheels.

A friend of mine was giving instruction to a 170 owner. They caught a gust, the airplane bounced, and when it came back down, the student was standing on the brakes. The airplane went on its back immediately, and was destroyed. No injuries, fortunately. But my friend observed that the instructor is pretty helpless in this situation. Hitting the brakes is such a natural reflex in a panic, and it's hard to pull their feet back off the pedals. (The student and his partners replaced the 170 with a 172, which my friend thought was a very good decision for them.)

One local instructor who does tailwheel endorsements prefers to do that work only in aircraft with heel brakes, because they're much harder to stand on. I think that's very smart.

I'm absolutely addicted to tail-draggers, but we should never forget that we're taking chances that tricycle gear pilots aren't.

[canav8]

I'm sympathetic to what WACO was trying to do with this. 80% of my flight hours are in tailwheel types, and I've never damaged an aircraft I was flying (been lucky a few times!). I briefly tried giving primary instruction in my 170, and I've given up on that idea for good. If the student owns the airplane, that's one thing. But if a student wants to learn to fly with me, I'm going to encourage him or her to find someone with a tricycle gear aircraft to learn in. It's so much an easier path to the license, and a safer one. Yes, a tail wheel makes you a more skilled pilot -- but let the student build some hours before trying it. Although tricycles won't do some of the fun things I do with tail-draggers, there's a good reason most aircraft have nose wheels.

A friend of mine was giving instruction to a 170 owner. They caught a gust, the airplane bounced, and when it came back down, the student was standing on the brakes. The airplane went on its back immediately, and was destroyed. No injuries, fortunately. But my friend observed that the instructor is pretty helpless in this situation. Hitting the brakes is such a natural reflex in a panic, and it's hard to pull their feet back off the pedals. (The student and his partners replaced the 170 with a 172, which my friend thought was a very good decision for them.)

One local instructor who does tailwheel endorsements prefers to do that work only in aircraft with heel brakes, because they're much harder to stand on. I think that's very smart.

I'm absolutely addicted to tail-draggers, but we should never forget that we're taking chances that tricycle gear pilots aren't.

Excellent Advice John. I have found it easier to fix mistakes then teach primary as well. I will teach primary as a favor to someone but otherwise I teach transition. It is also alot less stressful as I am getting older. I have also found that it is easier to teach Helicopter pilots and Glider pilots believe it or not. Doug

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I have also found that it is easier to teach Helicopter pilots.....believe it or not. Doug

So I'm glad to hear you thought that attempt was easy Doug. bounce bounce bounce aaaaawwww

Actually one thing that I learned and relearned and learned once again flying with Doug but would and could easily happen flying with anyone teaching, is that you shouldn't have any expectations of the capability of the pilot being taught. I tend to be drawn into this trap rather easily flying with folks I've watched fly other aircraft and assume way to much.

[jrenwick]

I helped one helicopter pilot transition to tailwheel (he already had a fixed-wing rating). Without being told, he stayed active on the rudder pedals all through the roll-out. He caught on very quickly, partly because he already knew what his feet were for.

[DaveF]

Teaching primary is tough, all right. I'm in the process of teaching my 15-year-old son to fly the 170. Like all kids he learns fast, but it took a lot longer for him to make decent landings than I thought it would. One day I realized that was because I wasn't letting him land the airplane. Every time he got close to the ground I'd pull the yoke or push the rudder, so he never learned anything. Once I got over my fear of heading for the weeds he made much quicker progress!