54 B model project

[GAHorn]

And........(drum rolllllllllll).....THE NUMBER ONE MODIFICATION........

.....painting it RED!

SOOOoooo painting your airplane red was a MODIFICATION. Which means your plane actually has a BLUE heart? Blue being a primary color in FAST GREEN.

I don't really have any information on what color it left the factory. I probably could research that via the dataplate but haven't. It was painted red after a 16 year restoration subsequent to being imported from El Salvador in different colors/scheme than appropriate for a 170. Since it was "re-patriated" It was felt it deserved a good RED-blooded American scheme.

George, that would be a good mod that could also be done on a 170A model as well. Most people don't realize that the piano key switches are actually 3 position switches with half of their function disabled with a "Stop clip" that only allows the switch to be operated in one direction. By removing the stop clip you can then move the piano key up as well using this as a second function of the switch.

That is correct! In such case, power could be routed directly from that switch (provided one hasn't a problem with increasing the load-demands on the cockpit electrical-buss. Another advantage of the solenoid system is that the increased currents remain outside the cockpit. The amperage/capacity of the original "piano" toggle-switch should also be taken into consideration. Most are only 20-30A, and the dual light system can exceed that.)

[FredMa]

The A model piano key set up originally used the AGS fuse holders which cannot handle 30amps or more anyway. That is why the alternator mod requires a circuit breaker instead of a fuse holder. Not sure what switch the B model uses for the landing light but would not be surprised if it were the same switch on the A model piano key switches. I just wanted to mention the possible additional switch function in case someone wanted to utilize it in the future.

[GAHorn]

The '53 and later B-models no longer utilized toggle switches at all. (They were changed to push-pull types.)
I suspect the reason C.B.'s are used in alternator STCs is due to modernity, as many generator installations use AGS fuses larger than 30A. In any case, the exact instructions of an STC must be followed, of course.

[n2582d]

Another advantage of the solenoid system is that the increased currents remain outside the cockpit. The amperage/capacity of the original "piano" toggle-switch should also be taken into consideration. Most are only 20-30A, and the dual light system can exceed that.)

George, you really hate flying fry by wire airplanes, don't you? I really like the way you designed the circuit for your lights. I've bought a landing/taxi light assy. from a salvage yard. If I can convince the local FSDO to field approve it, the second set of lights will be installed similar to your setup.

[54170b]

Do you even need approval? It is a cessna part.

[hilltop170]

I don't really have any information on what color it left the factory.

George, have you ever pulled the vertical stab off? The original color will be under it.

[n2582d]

Do you even need approval? It is a cessna part.

A second landing light set is not included in the Type Certificate Data Sheet for the C-170B.

TCDS.jpg

Therefore to add it would be considered an alteration to the TCDS. An A&P/I.A. then has to determine if it is a major or minor alteration. In my opinion it is a major alteration as it involves cutting a large hole into the leading edge of the wing. A major alteration requires either a field approval or an STC. Just because a part is "a Cessna part" doesn't automatically mean it can be added to one's plane with just a logbook entry. You could however duct tape huge flashlights to the struts. Since they would not be permanently attached to the structure there is no need for any paperwork.

I thought for a minute when looking at the TCDS clip above (which is listed under "Specifications Pertinent to All Models") that one could add the retractable Grimes light to the C-170A and B but clearly under the weight and arm tables on the right side the Grimes light is only applicable to the straight C-170. Likewise, the G.E. 4509 leading edge landing lights are not approved here for the straight C-170. Anybody have a 170 that doesn't have any landing lights? If so, and you want to add lights, AK175-25G may help those with A or B models.

[bagarre]

I never quite understand why some things are considered major alterations when there doesnt seems to be anything major about them.

Major Alteration:

An alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications, that:

1) Might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or

2) Is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.

Since it's already approved for the left wing, it's reasonable to state that it would not appreciably affect any of those items if also placed on both wings. The spar is not modified, leading edge carries no load, it's aerodynamic shape is preserved and the extra weight is minor in change.
The procedure to install can be done by accepted practices and elementary operations (metal cutting, riveting, wire terminals, electrical hook up, circuit protection)

I think it would be a major alteration if you wanted to add C195 retractable landing lights to the wings as they do affect flight characteristics. (which may help A models with thier little flaps )

[GAHorn]

I don't really have any information on what color it left the factory.

George, have you ever pulled the vertical stab off? The original color will be under it.

My airplane underwent a 16-17 yr reconstruction in which it was disassembled to it's individual parts and subassemblies. It's empennage was completely disassembled down to the spars and ribs, repaired/replaced/reskinned, epoxy polyamide applied, then reassembled. I have some of the original skins which were removed, including the vertical stab skins (still showing the small N-registration shadows) and there is no sign of paint. It was exported from Wichita in Nov '52 as a '53 model, and left for El Salvador possibly with only it's Salvadoran registration (YS-146) painted in black on otherwise natural aluminum.
It was subsequently imported to the U.S. in the early 70's and given it's first U.S. Airworthiness Certificate, issued by the FAA (not a DAR, and in error it seems, as it had the incorrect "C" engine and "EM" prop installed.) It was given the registration N4922 and painted in creme/tan/brown and flown around until run out of gas at Cut-and-Shoot, TX and landed in a field. It was then sold as a project which resulted in it's 16-yr restoration to its present condition.

[GAHorn]

I never quite understand why some things are considered major alterations when there doesnt seems to be anything major about them.

Major Alteration:

An alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications, that:

1) Might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or

2) Is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.

Since it's already approved for the left wing, it's reasonable to state that it would not appreciably affect any of those items if also placed on both wings. The spar is not modified, leading edge carries no load, it's aerodynamic shape is preserved and the extra weight is minor in change.
The procedure to install can be done by accepted practices and elementary operations (metal cutting, riveting, wire terminals, electrical hook up, circuit protection)

I think it would be a major alteration if you wanted to add C195 retractable landing lights to the wings as they do affect flight characteristics. (which may help A models with thier little flaps )

If 170 left the factory without the land/taxi lights on the left wing, and if Cessna dwgs, etc are used to install those genuine Cessna parts....it might be a minor alteration. But (except perhaps in the case of the Skymasters) the addition to the right wing is not supported by Cessna dwgs etc.

Also: ...
Appendix A to Part 43—Major Alterations, Major Repairs, and Preventive Maintenance
(a) Major alterations —(1) Airframe major alterations. Alterations of the following parts and alterations of the following types, when not listed in the aircraft specifications issued by the FAA, are airframe major alterations:

(i) Wings. ......

I would think it makes no difference that the leading edge shape is not changed.... It is significant that the metal leading edge is replaced by plastic however.

Interestingly, Wm Thompson points out in his book that Cessna had difficulties with leading edge landing lights causing premature dropping of a wing during stall demonstrations, until minor changes were made to the fairing-frame/surround of the lens. So it would seem that a careless installation or workmanship might result in a change in flight charateristics....which certainly would influence definition as a major alteration.

My second lights setup were accomplished using specific FAA-DER engineering approval.

[hilltop170]

Not trying to be argumentative but the guys in Alaska install the right wing landing/taxi light as a minor mod with logbook sign-off only and that is supported by the Anchorage FSDO. Most folks are doing it as a safety enhancement using the Pulselight STC and the feds seem to like that.

[blueldr]

Lopez,
Surely, you didn't put PLASTIC rudder pedals in it, did you?

[DaveF]

Dave, come down and visit us one day!

I will, just as soon as I get my engine put back together. The project stopped for a while when my mechanic had major back surgery. I hope to be flying by Thanksgiving.

[Lopez]

Lopez,
Surely, you didn't put PLASTIC rudder pedals in it, did you?

No, even though I am an airbus pilot, I elected to use new cast aluminum pedals. It has a center stack radio conversion so I thought I'd make the interior look more modern with late model yokes and pedals.

[blueldr]

Though I was sort of joking about the plastic pedals, when I went to the junkie to look for replacement pedals for my '52 model with the wobbly ones, all of the pressed or cast metal pedals needed rebushing but all the plastic ones were fine.