Destroyed cylinders

[jrenwick]

Another possibility on those cylinders is if that shop is as corrupt like it looks, they may have been perfectly good cylinders and if they needed some for another job, they just stole them. I don't know what is worse, destroying someone else's property or stealing it. Not making any accusations, justy another possibility if you never saw the "destroyed" parts.

This is exactly why a reputable shop should never destroy anything, and why your experience is so alarming.

[GAHorn]

cylinders have serial numbers, when condemned they are recorded by serial number...
not destroyed.
when propellers are condemned the word "condemned"
is struck next to the serial number.
destruction of parts removes the possibility of evidence
by untrustworthy shops.
regardless of the outcome of this situation, I want to know that the name of the shop
so I can avoid all the future business with them.
there is no legitimate explanation for destruction of parts.

[wingnut]

I agree with George and everyone else here. I do not ever throw away or "destroy" condemned parts until well after the customer/owner has picked up his aircraft, and has opportunity to see the parts. I cannot even fathom the idea of doing such a thing. It's difficult enough now days to convince people your honest without crap like this. I would also like to know the name of the shop. I don't want to ever be in the position of sending a customers cylinders out and have something like this happen. That would look bad on me and I wouldn't be able prove different.

This does bring back a memory of when I shipped out a heated lift detector, UPS, COD. The purchaser wanted a guarantee that it was serviceable. So, I guaranteed it, by telling him I would hold his check until I heard from him. I bench checked it (again) before I shipped it. I had not recieved his check via UPS yet when he called to say it did not work. I told him to send it back, I would tear up his check when I recieved it, and send him a check for his shipping cost. I got his check before I recieved the lift detector. I screwed up and disposed of the check. When I recieved the lift detector, it was not the one I shipped. It was his old inop unit. Live and learn. Thing is, I still sleep just fine

[Brad Brady]

What George and Del said. When I change out air filters and spark plugs, I hold the old ones for the owner to examine.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

We should probably know the name no matter what happens. I'd like to hear they made a mistake and made it right. Then I might be more inclined to use them over someone I know no history.

[Brad Brady]

We should probably know the name no matter what happens. I'd like to hear they made a mistake and made it right. Then I might be more inclined to use them over someone I know no history.

I couldn't agree more! I'm willing to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. but then, It goes with the old adage, Screw me once shame on you...Screw me twice shame on ME!

[busav8or]

OK, I finally have enough new information to share. Turns out all 12 of the cylinders I got from Russ Farris and Forrest Walton were sent to Triad Aviation in Burlington, NC for evaluation. They said that 6 of the 12 were already bored out .015" and had no more to "give" so they were put aside. The other 6 had been bored out .005" but could be further bored and still used. (If some of these numbers aren't exactly correct, forgive me as I'm not an A&P and some of this info is second hand at best!) These were sent to Gibson Aviation in El Reno, OK for the job. Gibson said that, upon further inspection, all 6 had cracks in the heads and were red tagged and destroyed. Apparently, Gibson has a local FAA inspector who, one day, discovered a bunch of red tagged cylinders in a dumpster and demanded that they be destroyed to prevent their further use. I guess this has become the fate of any cylinders that they red tag since then. Russ talked to someone at Gibson who promised that they would pull 6 serviceable cylinders and send them to him to replace the 6 which were destroyed. We were waiting to see if this truly happened before naming names and we're still waiting to see if it does. We should know by the end of the week whether it happens or not!

Joe

[FredMa]

Here is how you deal with an FAA inspector such as this. You respond " sure I would be glad to cooperate with your request, Could you please show me where there is a requirment for me to destroy red tagged parts and the details of how I am to accomplish this?" When he Can't produce the requested data back to business as usual. The problem is that some people like to jump when the FAA says so without any thought. Fact is they are sometimes wrong and there is nothing wrong with questioning them. I have proven them wrong on numerous ocassions. The key is to remain courteous and professional about the situation even when you feel like ripping their head off and rolling it across the ramp like a bowling ball.

[bagarre]

A red tagged part is still possibly useful for something other than aviation. Like airboats. So it still has a material value even if red tagged.

[blueldr]

That pretty much surprizes me. Gibson has been around for a long time and I've never heard a growl about them before. If this activity of destroying parts without advising the owner first has been an ongoing thing, it seems we would have heard of it before now. Strange.

[busav8or]

I agree, but that's the story they told Russ.

[hilltop170]

So why did they offer to replace them with serviceable cylinders if they were junk? Still sounds fishy.

[N2255D]

So why did they offer to replace them with serviceable cylinders if they were junk? Still sounds fishy.

Maybe they never had someone ask for the old junk back. They should have waited for confirmation of disposition before they destroyed them though (lesson learned?). They decided to replace the bad with good since they could not prove condition of the cylinders sent to them. Sounds like they did it right and it didn't take long for them to decide. Only 5 days from first post. Like blueldr I've never heard anything negative about Gibson.

[GAHorn]

Here is how you deal with an FAA inspector such as this. You respond " sure I would be glad to cooperate with your request, Could you please show me where there is a requirment for me to destroy red tagged parts and the details of how I am to accomplish this?" When he Can't produce the requested data back to business as usual. The problem is that some people like to jump when the FAA says so without any thought. Fact is they are sometimes wrong and there is nothing wrong with questioning them. I have proven them wrong on numerous ocassions. The key is to remain courteous and professional about the situation even when you feel like ripping their head off and rolling it across the ramp like a bowling ball.

EXCELLENT RESPONSE! I couldn't agree more.

I have also done business with Gibson over the years and believe them to be on the up-and-up. Perhaps they've learned a lesson over this matter. (Replacing the "condemned" cylinders with "serviceable" cylinders would not satisfy myself, however, unless they carried the tag and warranty. The cracked cyls might have been capable of repair by welding, they may not have been cracked beyond repair, and they may have had fewere "cycles" on them than the ones sent as replacements. But at least they bellied up to the bar for their error, and I'd do business with them again, just including on my work-order to NOT destroy condemend cyls but to return them.)

I once had some IO-470 cyls replaced with serviceable ones supplied by Gibson for my right engine on the Baron. The shop (AirRepair in Austin....NOT Air Repair in Waco who is a very good shop) kept my "deposit" of $600 each, telling me my "cores" were not repairable. This was only after I inquired FOUR months after my work was completed and the airplane returned to service. I"d tired of waiting for my core-deposit to be returned by them, and I had to follow up personally.

I contacted Gibson directly, who spent several days researching the serial numbers of the submitted cores and Gibson called me back to tell me they'd NEVER REQUIRED my core-deposit from AirRepair! (Apparently AirRepair in Austin thought I"d forget about $1800 and just go away.)

Point is: Gibson did the right thing and offered to contact AirRepair directly on my behalf. I thanked them but explained that I preferred to visit them FACE TO FACE. (I deposited AirRepair's refund check within 30 minutes directly at AirRepairs bank to assure no more funny business would occur such as insufficient funds, etc. They are still in-business in Austin, but I'd not use them.)

I've had no problems with Gibson, Sentry, or J & J, in Pleasanton, TX.

[MoonlightVFR]

They have damaged their business name. stained their integrity seriously. Consuming public will never totally forgive.


There is a ready market for table lamps mfg from cracked cylinders. I donated one for that purpose.







Regards