Thinking about a trip

[pojawis]

a couple of teen age brothers did it in a Cub with sectionals and wrote a book

Flight of Passage by Rinker Buck. Good book. They did it in the 60s, if memory serves.

[KS170A]

What about the Rockies? That's what I'm worried about. I have no mountain experience except for the Blue Ridge at 500 AGL.

XM Weather is a good idea for a trip like this.

I plan to pull the back seat out for the trip to fit the folding bicycles and camping gear.

Are there any books worth reading in the mean time about mountain flying or long trips in little airplanes?

I flew my 170A up to MT & ID, down through UT into AZ, then from Page, AZ, via Pueblo, CO, back to KS a few years ago. I crossed the Continental Divide at Monarch Pass, which is west of Pueblo (KPUB). From east going west, from PUB to Salida (KANK), continue west to Monarch Pass (elevation 11,312), then descend into the valley that takes you over Gunnison (KGUC), Blue Mesa reservoir and Black Canyon National Monument.

Alternatively, you could go south towards Las Vegas, NM (KLVS) for lower terrain, Cimarron VOR (CIM) over to Eagle Nest, down to Angel Fire (KAXX) over to Taos, NM (KSKX).

Either way, the recommendations posted earlier about flying in the morning, low wind, and below gross weight are all golden rules to fly by in the rocks. When in a valley (not a canyon; don't fly canyons unless you are absolutely sure you know there is an out), fly on the upwind side (to take advantage of updrafts) and not in the middle (where the most turbulence can be) or windward side (where the downdrafts are likely).

The Air Safety Foundation has an excellent interactive course about mountain flying and things to consider and has some great interactive tools that illustrate reasons for what they say.

Sparky Imeson's "Mountain Flying Bible" is also a good reference, although there are others. There are also several specific guides to backcountry flying such as "Fly Idaho!" (and other states) available at Sporty's Pilot Shop and other places. Those are more for backcountry places (although some of those can be downright nice!).

Sounds like a great trip!

[GAHorn]

The lee side is where I've always found downdrafts and turbulence.

[KS170A]

The lee side is where I've always found downdrafts and turbulence.

Thanks George...I was visualizing it correctly, but typed it incorrectly. I've revised my post.

[cowboy]

If you are flying in a valley/canyon (and the terrain is descending), fly on the downwind, lee side of the canyon. There you will be experiencing the updrafts as the wind strikes the rising terrain below you, and if a turn around is needed you will be turning into a headwind thus reducing your ground turn radius. Flying in the middle denies both the updrafts and halves the available room for a turn. And flying on the upwind, windward side (A.K.A the lee side of the ridge) you'll be experiencing more down air, turbulance and in a turn around you will have a tailwind. Avoid narrowing and/or rising valleys and canyons as they can trap you.

Once you get out west, get together with a local 170 type or grab a local CFI to show you the basics of mountain flying in the area. If you have the time there are several places where you can take excellent mountain flying courses. If you get around Sheridan Wyoming I'll be happy to show you the ropes. We have terrain from 4,000' (airport elevation) to over 13,000 within 30 miles.

[GAHorn]

OK folks....let's not confuse the issues with incorrect terms.

The LEE side is the side OPPOSITE of the wind direction. If there is a north/south ridgeline, and the wind is FROM the west....the LEE side is on the EAST side of the ridge. This is where the wind comes OVER the top of the ridge and then descends down the LEE side...creating a sinking/downdraft, which can exceed your aircraft climb performance, and take you into the dirt. Where that wind flows over the ridge can be VERY TURBULENT. (Think of the air like waves arriving on the beach, rolling/breaking surf.)
The WINDWARD side is the west side of the ridge. The west-wind will be forced UPWARD by rising terrain, creating UPdrafts. Mild turbulence can also occur here, which will increase dramatically as it tops the ridgeline.

Stay ABOVE canyons until you've determined you have sufficient room to manuever inside them. If the canyon is north/south and wind from the west, AVOID flying northbound along the west side of the canyon....because....you will be on the lee side of the west canyon wall AND if you must turn around the only way to do so is to turn eastward/downwind which will increase groundspeed and carry you faster toward the opposite/eastside canyon wall.
Instead, fly northbound along the east wall such that a course-reversal will be a turn to the west, INTO the wind/then southward. This will DEcrease groundspeed and provide greater turning radius to accomplish the task.

Flying up/into canyons is very dangerous. They frequently and insidiously have floors which are rising-terrain. As the gorge narrows your maneuvering room disappears because the floor has been coming up to meet you, the walls have been closing in on both sides, and your altitude has been approaching aircraft performance limits. Now you are literally against-the-wall and perhaps too late to get back out. Adverse winds which are funneled into the very place you've now found yourself will work against you extricating yourself. If you did not have lots of excess aircraft climb-performance to get up and out of there....it's too late for you.

If all this is the least bit confusing to you ...stay the hell out of mountains and canyons. No book or "expert" is likely to help you by simply offering advice/reading prior to your first trip to the mountains.



Here's mountain flying expert, bookseller and author of "Mountain Flying Bible" "Sparky" Imeson,

taken after his next-to-last crash.

Don't do what Sparky did. :

[KS170A]

OK folks....let's not confuse the issues with incorrect terms.

The LEE side is the side OPPOSITE of the wind direction. If there is a north/south ridgeline, and the wind is FROM the west....the LEE side is on the EAST side of the ridge. This is where the wind comes OVER the top of the ridge and then descends down the LEE side...creating a sinking/downdraft, which can exceed your aircraft climb performance, and take you into the dirt. Where that wind flows over the ridge can be VERY TURBULENT. (Think of the air like waves arriving on the beach, rolling/breaking surf.)
The WINDWARD side is the west side of the ridge. The west-wind will be forced UPWARD by rising terrain, creating UPdrafts. Mild turbulence can also occur here, which will increase dramatically as it tops the ridgeline.

The video I linked to previously illustrates what the effects of winds are as they come across a ridge, into a valley, and up the other side. Eliminates confusion as to lee sides of ridges and lee sides of valleys, and where the updrafts, downdrafts, and turbulence is most likely.

Let Sparky's untimely final flight serve as a reminder that even the most knowledgable mountain pilots can be bested by nature.

[cowboy]

Right, the lee side is the downwind side. Do not fly on the lee side of the ridge. I was saying do fly on the leeward side of the valley/canyon, along the windward slope to benefit from the rising air.

[Roesbery]

I have said part of this before and some people can't understand. but maybe some of the newer people to flying in mountains will become cautious enough to live another day.
George is correct in the terminolgy. However there can be exceptions. Here is a example of what can happed in mountains. You Alaska people may know the locations I am talking about. This happened in the summer of '78' or maybe '79' I was a low time pilot flying a 180 hp 170B, my second plane, the first being a '52' with stock engine.
Was flying out of Wood River, South of Fairbanks, going to the Stampeed mine, West of Healy. Surface winds in Wood River were about 15 Kt out of the south. I flew down Wood River to Cody Creek and up Cody Creek and over the pass at the head of the creek at about 5000 feet and headed down the Healy River toward Healy and the coal mine. Flying from east to west, the winds were quite a bit stronger from the south at altitude and a overcast layer was at about 7000' msl. Picture two more or less parrallel ridges on either side of the river bottom, more side gullys in the ridge on the south side. The LEE side of the canyon being the north side of the south ridge and the UPWIND side being the south side of the north ridge. The wind flowing over the south ridge into the valley was expected to be turbulent, the south side of the north ridge should be smoother and have a updraft. So I flew along the north side of the valley on the south side of the north ridge and found a strong updraft and pulled the power back and trimmed for manuvering speed and just kept going up, shoved the nose down more and reduced power more and still going up. Made several attempts to get lower and was getting worried that I might be pushed up into the cloud layer. At some where near 6500 feet msl + or - 300 feet, the plane started violently shaking, all the loose objects in the plane were up against the roof sliding around, the passenger seat back was slamming back and forth. Maps, tools, oil can, fuel tester, flashlight, everything that could get loose was up there. I was against the seat belt, could not read any of the instruments. When the plane started flying again, the altimeter indicated 4000' msl, the side of the ridge slope was about about 150 to 200 feet from the right wing tip. Had I been over to the right that far I would have been in a pile of bent metal. I tried to estimate the time it took to loose over 2000 feet and my best guess is between 2 and 5 seconds, probably closer to the 2 seconds but no more than 5. When you were 10 years old you could run a hundred yards in about 10 seconds right. Found out later that a airlines jet in the flight levels hit turbulence over the Alaska range at about the same time that caused someone to break a leg.
As for flying up blind canyons, a stock c170 will not outclime most terrain, so plan on it. Make climing circles untill you can be above the highest ground and go down the canyon. The day I got my private ticket, I was flying a red c150 and when I landed at the home field all the people were extra glad to see me, and I wondered why. Turned out that a few minutes before I got there they had word that a red plane had crashed a few miles from the airport. Turned out to be a red two place grumman that had flew up a canyon and could not out clime the ground, tried to turn and did not have enough room, burned on impact.
Some of the indicators to look for are lenticular clouds, dust, blowing snow, and general cloud movement, like a cloud rolling over a hill and comming down the side.
Wanted to take a short cut through a narrow pass that had a couple hundred feet space between the top of the pass and the clouds and thought I could make it, but as I got closer I could see that the wind was causing the clouds to move down my side of the notch. Low clouds = strike one, wind causing a downdraft = strike two, and I went the long way.
Another thing to remember about flying up canyons to near the head is that as you fly up the upwind side and all is well, when you turn into the wind you will also be turning into the downdraft side of the canyon and even with full power nose down following the treetops back down the canyon can get your heart beating a bit faster.
Mountain flying can be the most rewarding flying there is when the air is calm and you can fly alongside of the sheep or goats and count the growth rings on their horns.

[bagarre]

Well, the trip out West will have to wait until next year.
I will still be flying to this year's convention but my Dad wants to fly MY 170 to Oshkosh, which is WAY too cool to pass up.

So, we'll do some multi-day trips on the East Coast this year and plan for the big trip next year.