The International Cessna^® 170 Association

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spduffee wrote:Yeah, I think at this juncture I will go with the repair option. You do have to admit though, those bolts do add a certain ruggedness to the tail... Thanks for pointing that out. There are a number of repairs that were done to the craft a long time ago that are perfectly acceptable, but a bit shoddy on the detailmanship.

Not necessarily-so... Bolts do not fill their holes...unless the holes are reamed. In other words, only a couple of those bolts might be doing all the work, and the rest might just be "loafing". The "workers" may cause additonal cracks as they become stressed. Definitely not the "standard" type of repair done in this area.... (sorry to say, resembles a shade-tree repair.)

Am I nuts?.... (ans: probably)....I''ve slept recently .... but didn't you just paint this airplane?...or was it already painted? How long have you had it?

Before you go spending a lot of money getting a second-opinion...(it appears your present inspector is actually a bearer of good-news in disguise...he's found stuff that can cause serious injury/wreckage ...and needs a congratulatory pat-on-the-back and the previous guys need a kick in the pants.)

gahorn wrote: Before you go spending a lot of money getting a second-opinion...(it appears your present inspector is actually a bearer of good-news in disguise...he's found stuff that can cause serious injury/wreckage ...and needs a congratulatory pat-on-the-back and the previous guys need a kick in the pants.)

Well, I consider the inspector a friend, has helped me out a lot. But, he annualled the plane in 2005 before it sat until I came around. He did not see the crack in the tail and he did not see the missing rivets. One can't see everything, I know. I'm just bitter at this point and bummed that it all had to surface during my ownership, having never even flown it and enjoyed one bit of it. Tom Downey has been looking into the rivets situation and it doesn't look good.

Ok so now how bad is it? The tail can be fixed relatively cheaply. New aft tail section from a wreck would be the cheapest way to go. The surface of the door post looks a little rough so that's likely an indicator that corrosion is an issue for your plane as well the bolts that hold your wing on, look real rusty. Shawn I don't know whether you have a hangar but if I was faced with this dilemma I'd; take the wing off, a day job with your pals, remove the wing attach block (soak everything because things have probably swelled a bit due to corrosion) assess the extent of the damage in the carry through spar. Then remove the broken rivets, look down the bores to see if anything is amiss and check if there's been material loss inside the spar or bulging between parts.
It doesn't sound too bad to me but I've replaced the fuselage top skin and fwd spar cap and done a bit of sheet metal work in the past. You'll need an IA to oversee your work as well, so if that does not work for you then it might get expensive. And if there's problems then it will get expensive as often the work will shift from one spot to another.

Jim,
I have been extremely fortunate to have a very understanding and patient, but demanding, IA directing everything I do. I work outdoors because there are no hangars available and if there were, they'd range from $450-800/mo. Can't do it. We do have T-hangars available, which would help quite a bit. If I knew I could do this myself, with guidance, and not spend a fortune, I'd do it. One of the great benefits of this adventure is that I have gained so much knowledge from doing the work myself, and because I made a decision to write a check several months ago to the IC170A. I know I'm not the first to be faced with unending problems and challenges, and I know I may sound like a p*ssy always ranting and raving about my issues, but geezus...one thing after another. I will talk to the local IA and Tom to see if I can map out a rescue plan. I'd welcome help from anyone, anywhere.

spduffee wrote:....... I know I may sound like a p*ssy always ranting and raving about my issues, but geezus...one thing after another. I will talk to the local IA and Tom to see if I can map out a rescue plan. I'd welcome help from anyone, anywhere.

Shawn, part of having a forum such as this and an organization like TIC170 is for the members to listen to it's members. The stories told are not all good stories. You and a few others have had what seems to be more than their fair share of issues. I feel fortunate myself that my aircraft ownership did not begin like some of the stories like yours and others I've heard. It would have been a very short period in my life and I wonder what i'd be into today because it wouldn't be aircraft ownership.

Sounds like you have some very good people to work with. Good luck. It may not be as bad as it looks.

Thanks Bruce.
Since I'm at it, what's the best way to examine the rear spar carry-through and its rivets? I guess I'd have to remove the headliner completely?

Sounds like you should just so you can have an unimpeded look at everything. If you're careful and depending on the material of your headliner you may be able to save it to reinstall.

Love your new avatar, got to visit Mount Rushmore this year and wanted to do the same climb as C.G. did in the film.

My headliner has zippers on it that allows me to get in there pretty easy.
I'm able to inspect the rear carry thru with a mirror and a bright light.
But, I'm told the corrosion issue happens on the inside of the spar which is not accessible with the wings on.

Shawn's zipper will run fore/aft, not across the cabin. I'm not sure how much that will allow him to see.

I think I'd reach up there and take a billion shots with my iphone before trying to pull the headliner down. Headliners are a lot of work.

http://photojojo.com/store/awesomeness/ ... ne-lenses/

I've used the fish-eye lens to get high res photos way up inside inspection holes before. Works quite well.

bagarre wrote:My headliner has zippers on it that allows me to get in there pretty easy.
I'm able to inspect the rear carry thru with a mirror and a bright light.

Ryan Smith wrote:Shawn's zipper will run fore/aft, not across the cabin. I'm not sure how much that will allow him to see.

bagarre wrote:But, I'm told the corrosion issue happens on the inside of the spar which is not accessible with the wings on.

Ryan's observation is correct. Much harder to see the carry thru on the '48 and A model.

Davids last observation is correct. It is what you can not see on the inside of the spar that you want to see.

Jim suggested removing the wing for the front, might as well do that and check them all. The team here in Auburn, as did Tom, suggested drilling a 1/2" hole and trying to boroscope initially, though I have been warned it may yield low grade results. But at least I can see if I should go further - removing wings, removing skins and windshileds.
Bye the way, what exactly is involved in removing the wings?

The avatar - I feel like Peter Griffin having a nightmare of being chased by an evil winged monster that is trying to suck the life and cash out of him, haha ....

I wouldn't drill any more inspection holes in the spar. It might not hurt anything but I wouldn't take the chance, there are probably already too many holes in the spar already if it is like mine.

Once the wing is removed, the spar block can be removed from the end of the carry-thru and the entire length of the carry-thru can be inspected.

Or, as already mentioned, drill out all the spar cap rivits and remove the spar cap for the front and remove the top deck skin for the rear, a pretty involved job. Removing the wings is just nuts and bolts, removing the spar cap and top deck is drilling and riviting. I like nuts and bolts better.