PIREP's on Seat Stop SB?

[hilltop170]

Bruce-
I can't really say if they reduce track wear or not but would guess they do not. Like I said before, I have used the cam-lock stop (notice I didn't say Aero Stop because mine are circa 20 years before Aero Stop applied for the patent for their supposed invention) for over 20 years and still had to replace seat tracks due to wear and cracking.

Unfortunately they were replaced with McFarlanes and now the pilot side cam-lock stop won't fit! I guess I'll have to buy an Aero Stop after all, or put Cessna tracks back in. The McFarlane tracks are beefier but the seat drags on them and doesn't slide as smoothly. I like Cessna tracks better.


George-
The cam-lock stops are so easy to unlatch and slide back it is almost as much an automatic reflex as unlatching the seat. In fact, I unlatch with one hand and release the stop with the other at the same time.

Since seat stops are mostly needed for take-off, the cam-lock stops can be slid back after take-off or anytime. I'm so used to using them I leave them up against the seat and just naturally reach for it as I slide back. Same thing could be done if you have any advance notice of a problem requiring quick exit, go ahead and slide it back. Then you know its out of the way.

With the service bulletin inertial stops, fast movement of the seat during emergency egress could cause the inertial stop to actuate and trap the occupant. No thanks, I don't want one.

[GAHorn]

Unfortunately I spoke of the incorrect brand-name when addressing my previous quesiton... What I meant to ask is..how does one get the thumb-screw seat locks out of the way during an evacuation. (And a rejected takeoff is a likely time to have the seat-track-locks in their fwd positions AND when the locks are likely to be locked and not easily disabled.)

[N2865C]

I recently saw an installation of the Cessna Seat Stop in on a 180. To me it did appear well made and designed, and looked like it would do the job. While not an item that dripped classic beauty, it was fairly unobtrusive. Interestingly, the owner of this 180 had crashed his previous 180 that he had owned for many years when the original seat failed on takeoff. He and his wife were lucky and were not injured, but the plane flipped and was totaled. Needless to say he is a firm proponent of the new Cessna seat stop. According to him, Cessna dealers don't like to install them because Cessna is only reimbursing the Service Centers for part of the time it actually takes to do the installation. He said he had to insist that the Service Center install it.
My new opinion of the Cessna Seat Stop.......... Some will like 'em and some won't.

[lowNslow]

Saw this on Aircraft Spruce which works with the existing seat lever. Can be installed by owner, no 337 required. Doesn't say if it works with 170 seats.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/a ... otstop.php

[N8293A]

At my last annual in February, my IA installed the newest Cessna seat stop solution. It consists of an inertial reel attached to the seat frame and a seat belt type belt stretched foreward and bolted to the floor. The inertial reel is released by pulling the seat adjustment bar. So adjusting the seat, if the unit is functioning properly, is the same as before the unit was installed. The IA's only concern was if the inertial reel jammed, or malfunctioned, exiting the a/c might be inconvienient. The unit was installed at no charge! Cessna paid for the unit and a pre-determined amount of labor. The IA said he makes a little money because Cessna was generous with the labor allotment, and he can usually install it quicker than they thought. Aesthetically, not the greatest, when the seat is forward you don't really notice it, but when the seat is way back the strap is in full view. So far, with just a few months of use, I have had no problems. Only time will tell if this will be a future maintanence issue. But hey it was FREE.

Steve
N8293A '53 C170B

[kbbell]

How much do the Aerostops cost?

-Bill

[Larry Holtz]

I had mine installed yesterday. Only three flights so far and it works good. I notice that when moving the seat back to exit the plane, I need to rock forward slightly to as I pull up on the latch in order to release the cog on the rachet. No big deal, and, as was said before, its free.
The FBO in Seattle that installed it was great to work with and acted like it was the most important plane in the shop as it sat between a couple of jets.

Larry

[N2865C]

NTSB Cites Seat Pin Failure In Alaskan C-180 Fatal

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Cont ... bd64234bab

[W.J.Langholz]

My son and I both have such long legs, and the only ones the pilot the airplane, that when there are just 2 in the plane we pretty much have are seats back all the way. It would be nice to have one however when there is someone in the back seat. What does the Cessna one look like that they offer free? I think after the C-180 crash last year.

[SteveF]

I have had the new Cessna seat stops in my 170 for about six weeks. I have had no problems at all and am quite happy with them. Only complaint is the strap is ugly when the seat is all the way back but the safety value far outweighs the looks and it is only when the seat is back that you see it.

I had both seats done because I fly from the right and if I am in the left and a passenger has the seat let go they are at least as likely as another pilot and probably more likely to pull on the wheel. The pilot's seat was free and took about three hours to be done. The second seat cost me $350 and was another three to four hours. Money well spent as far as I am concerned.

I really like the added safety and the ease of use of this blessed by Cessna restraint. The seat still goes all the way back for ease of entry and exit. I also like the fact that it locks at whatever distance you decide to set the seat. If you want to move a notch or two as your legs get tired there is nothing special that has to be done - just move the seat normally.

My thought is if it is free and seems to be trouble free why not get it. All these other restraints that grip the seat track in some way will still work so continue to use them if you like but you have added safety with the new restraint also being present.

[voorheesh]

NTSB Cites Seat Pin Failure In Alaskan C-180 Fatal
Cessna Will Install Safety Kit For Free... But Time Is Running Out

A well-known -- and easily correctable -- flaw in many older Cessna high-wing aircraft led to a fatal crash near Alaska's Mount Whittier last year, according to the National Transportation Safety Board.

In its Probable Cause report issued this week, the NTSB determined Anchorage city engineer Howard Holtan died when his Cessna 180 stalled on takeoff, due to the failure of the seat retention pins at a critical time.

The Board is fairly certain Holtan instinctively pulled back on the yoke when his seat slid back, causing the aircraft to pitch up violently and leading to a departure stall. Holtan was killed in the September 22, 2007 crash; his wife, Roberta, survived with critical injuries.

"You know, to the lay person, it would seem it's kind of a benign event, but unfortunately it can have disastrous results," NTSB investigator Clint Johnson told KTUU-2.

The report states a pilot friend of Holtan's watched the accident aircraft take off, and noted "the airplane's nose appeared abnormally high. He said that as the airplane began to climb, "the wings began to wobble" then the airplane disappeared behind an area of hilly, tree-covered terrain at the west end of the lake."

The friend feared the plane had crashed... but when he couldn't locate any wreckage as he flew over the area in his own plane, the friend continued onto their planned destination. "When the accident airplane failed to arrive at Johnstone Bay, the pilot of the second airplane contacted the Kenai Flight Service Station (FSS) specialist on duty, and reported the that the first airplane was presumed to have crashed," the Board notes.

When investigators arrived on scene, they noted "[t]he pilot's seat was discovered in the full aft position. The aft seat rail roller assembly was found against a rail-mounted SAF-T-Stop Seat Stop. The SAF-T-Stop Seat Stop is an auxiliary seat stop mechanism that stops rearward motion should the seat lock fail. According to the two hikers that first arrived on scene after the accident, neither recalled moving the pilot's seat during the rescue."

Seat failure due to worn retention-pin holes in the seat rail (shown top, right) is a known problem on older Cessna high-wing aircraft... and, has led to other fatal accidents. Months before the Holtan crash, Cessna issued a service bulletin offering to install a corrective safety kit, free of charge. Holtan's borrowed plane did not have a kit; in fact, an Anchorage Cessna dealer estimates less than 10 percent of affected aircraft have had the kit installed.

"They say, 'I don't have time to get it done,' 'I can't get my airplane in.' 'Just don't want to do it,'" said Tony Cestnik with Aero Twin.

Owners of affected aircraft -- which range from Cessna 170 models through the C-210 line -- have until May 2009 to have those safety kits installed for free... and the NTSB wants to get the word out.

FMI: Read The Probable Cause Report, www.cessna.com

[voorheesh]

Sorry, did not see that this had been previously posted.

[fishdoc]

During my most previous annual inspection my mechanic ordered and installed the inertia reel seat stop paid for by Cessna.
I haven't put it to the test by having my seat come unlatched on takeoff but it has never hindered entering or exiting the aircraft at all.
You'd never know it's there. When they were installing it we tested it by hand and it seemed very sensitive and locked up pronto when any rearward movement was initiated. This locking mechanism is disengaged by your seat lever so it's unable to lock up on you when you intentionally slide your seat back
As stated in an earlier post you will have to remove one small bolt to remove your seat but no big deal.
Seems like good, cheap insurance.

[Jr.CubBuilder]

I've had the inertial reel on my pilots side seat for almost a year now, and I've decided to install it on the passenger side when I have the money. It works, it doesn't rely on the seat stop pin so in that fashion it acts as a secondary point of failure, but doesn't replace common sense or the need for seat rail maintenance. I believe I posted some pics of it on another thread.

The pics are to big right now, I'll edit them later if I have time, below are the urls.

http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery ... /seat6.jpg
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery ... /seat5.jpg
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery ... /seat3.jpg
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery ... /seat1.jpg