The International Cessna^® 170 Association

The thread George link to has several old links to an old board that do not work. I updated the links there to ACE–00–23.561–01 :Retrofit Shoulder Harness Policy Letter which we have posted and of course this link will work as well.

Jean you may want to check with MOT to see if they have a similar policy as the FAA which will give you more latitude on what and how you can install shoulder harnesses.

You won't be dissapointed with the BAS harnesses. But if you buy another brand you will always wonder what the BAS harnesses are like. I ordered mine over the phone, mentioned this forum and the C170 association, and recieved a discount of 5 or 10%. At the time I did post here what the discount was, but with more time I have forgot.

Bill

Depending on the type of flying you do the bas harnesses could be your most important upgrade. They are a real simple install and provide no restriction while reaching for the flap handle etc. Cheap insurance. I just added a David Clark "K" helmet as well for a bit more comfort while way out in the boonies, on skis etc. but maybe I am just getting to be a bit more of a coward now that grey hair is settling in.

I want to go on record that:

I certainly do not disparage fine products like B.A.S. or Hooker, and other such products which are well-designed and specially suited to our airplanes.

My post regarding the ACE (FAA Policy letter) which allows simpler, economical shoulder harness solutions was made in an effort to prompt those unwilling/unable to afford the higher-end products... to go ahead and install SOMETHING...ANYTHING.... which is better than NOTHING....when it comes to saving your face/life in a nose-over or crash.

Shoulder harnesses which can do the job are as affordable as $50 or less and few excuses exist for not having them.

With the "Anything is better than nothing" tone of the document; would it be allowed to make your own inertial reel system from automotive parts?
Given that the reel would function properly in its new inverted position (apposed to on the floor in a car) and the sewing was done by someone that knew what they were doing.
This could be a less expensive alternative if one was willing to assume responsibility for the end product. (Owner made part?)

Just a thought.

Yes you could, but why would you expose yourself to the liability?. Think of the time it would take to manufacture them. So your going to copy a set. Have a set sitting around? Its not sounding like common sense here. Sorry. Just call up BAS and be done with it already, D

I wasnt thinking of re-fabricating the inertial reel.
I was thinking of re-purposing one from the automotive industry (IE, get one out of a used car) and having a reputable sewing shop stitch in the dual shoulder harnesses...or just re-use the fitting my Hooker harness has now ( to go from two into one to the spar).
This whole thing could be done for $50.00 or so

bagarre wrote:With the "Anything is better than nothing" tone of the document; would it be allowed to make your own inertial reel system from automotive parts?
Given that the reel would function properly in its new inverted position (apposed to on the floor in a car) and the sewing was done by someone that knew what they were doing.
This could be a less expensive alternative if one was willing to assume responsibility for the end product. (Owner made part?)

Just a thought.

As long as no structural alterations are made the airplane...even a hemp-rope tied to the rear seat belts and routed over your shoulders and tied to your lap belt...it OK according the FAA thought process on this matter.
Would your automotive inertia reel actualy work in the airplane? Will it not involve structural alterations? Then the FAA letter authorizes it. (I hope you're installing it in something without a lot of forward inertia, however... perhaps something GREEN ?)

It's BLUE with RED inerior; not sure how much inertia that translates to

My plane has the Hooker STC which adds some beef to the bolt for the shoulder harness. (The STC does not mention the Harness, only the spar re-enforcement)
Even without this STC, the nutplate would be "strong enough".

I think a reel could be competently re-purposed for this. You'd have to make sure it was an INERTIAL reel tho. Some older cars used a gravity system. There was a Steel ball that would flop forward under heavy braking (or heavy hitting). That would be useless in an airplane. You'd want the type that locks if you tried to pull it out too fast. But with some experimenting in a junk yard, you could find the one you needed.

Hmm, it might even make a neat article for the newsletter.

It would make a good article IF you can find such an inertia real. They are not that common. I know, I looked for one of a style that would work. Maybe I just didn't look in the right place yet but it is still one of the things I look at every time I visit the u-pull it yard.

I eventually came across two inertia reals that were made by AMSAFE that were being replaced by my company from one of our helicopters. I re-webbed them myself and sewed up the Y which had loops that the required certified seat belt system slipped through. The inertia reals easily adapted to the nut plates in the carry through spar of my first 170.

I don't have them installed in the current 170A I now own because there aren't any nut plates in the carry through and I've yet to figure out how to attach them without modifying the structure. (I've considered hemp but I do have a fast green plane and feel some more modern exotic material is more in order )

Did the AMSAFE reels look like this?

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200342963

No, .....well sort of, maybe they do. The particular AMSafe retracts I got for trash price were very expensive aircraft units so they at the very least have a nicer plastic cover.

Would be VERY interesting to look at these from Northern compared to the aircraft units I have. The mounting method, frame and size looks suspiciously the same as the units I have. If (when) I'm looking for more I'll have to look at these units. They look promising.

The units I found in cars were not compact or as you mentioned involved some sort of gravity weight needing a forward impact, not just the reel speed, to engage the units.

BTW seat belt material is very easy to sew and for piecing together a non working prototype I was able to use my wife's regular sewing machine and thread. However I wanted to use heavier stronger thread for my final production so I used an industrial machine that could hold a needle with a hole large enough to accommodate the thicker thread.

bagarre wrote:Did the AMSAFE reels look like this?

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200342963

The description includes

AmSafe seat belts are certified to meet FMVSS 302 and SAE J386 safety standards.

FMVSS 302 is a flammability standard. SAE J386 description is:

This SAE Standard establishes the minimum performance requirements for pelvic restraint systems (seat belts, anchorages, and the fastening elements of seat belts) necessary to restrain an operator or rider within a roll-over protective structure (ROPS) in the event of a machine roll-over, as defined in ISO 3471, or tip-over protection structure (TOPS), in the event of a machine tip over as defined in ISO 12117.This SAE Standard applies to off-road, self-propelled work machines fitted with ROPS as specified in ISO 3471, TOPS as specified in ISO 12117 and operator restraint.

I think I'd need to know more details of what J386 specifies before I'd want to put this in an airplane.

jrenwick wrote:I think I'd need to know more details of what J386 specifies before I'd want to put this in an airplane.

Here is one detail I'd want to know John. Is it better than the hemp George brings up every time this subject comes up.

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:

jrenwick wrote:I think I'd need to know more details of what J386 specifies before I'd want to put this in an airplane.

Here is one detail I'd want to know John. Is it better than the hemp George brings up every time this subject comes up.

Heh. But it might not be, if the reel fails to lock during a crash!