Batteries

[GAHorn]

Apples and Oranges exist in battery differences. I have no argument for those who like the Odyssey series (if you can get them approved for your airplane) , but I did notice their capacity and cold-cranking claims are somewhat less than other mfr's. Perhaps they are more realistic than their competition, but higher capacity batteries will ordinarily have shorter lives due to higher power outputs. Their dry design can be a nice feature.

[hilltop170]

I have gotten a combined 20 years of service (so far and the last two are still working fine) from the three Odyssey batteries I have had. If there is any lack of cranking power, it has not been seen on either of the 300hp engines (Cont O-520-D and Jacobs 755-A2 radial) they are installed with. The storage life while maintaining a charge has been exceptional.

[170C]

Richard's experience w/ Odyssey's sounds very promising. Apparently Concorde has two models of sealed batteries that fit our type planes. One is about $25 less $$ and has less cranking power while the XC apparently has 325 cranking amps. The person passing this data to me said he heard that the higher the cranking amps the shorter the life of the battery. Fact or heresay?

[hilltop170]

Frank-
I have the Concorde XC in my 170. It has been there since 2006 and is still going strong. My 170 sits unflown for 4 months every summer in Texas and the battery always starts the engine without any problem.

[170C]

Thanks Richard. Does anyone use a Battery Minder? One individual showed me one that he had a IA recommend. It has a max output of 1.5 amp's & came from a local auto parts house for about $60.00. I have never used one, nor have not needed one, but thought it a question that relates to this battery thread.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

If your going to use a "magic" battery minder, one that is automatic, you should get one calibrated for the aircraft battery type you are using. Aircraft batteries, even the dry type standard Gill-25 which one adds electrolyte is different than an auto battery. If you use an auto battery minder your results may not be satisfactory as you may be under charging the battery an it won't be charged when you want it or maybe worse over charging the battery reducing it's life.

Here is a link to BatteryMinder. I have a BatterMinder model tender for my motorcycle. By son in law has three of them for his toys, my neighbor has two of them for his cycles. Of course these are designed for cars and motorcycle batteries and not airplanes so I don't use them on airplanes nor recommend them for that but the BatterMinder brand has worked well for me and has an excellent reputation. If I was in the market for a aircraft tender I would get one of theirs for aircraft.

Here is a link to BatteryMinder aircraft battery chargers and tenders. They have them (different models) for the standard open flooded type Gils and Concord as well as the seal cell type and others for the Odyessy batteries. They even have two models that are solar powered for those of us in tie downs with no AC close by.

http://www.batteryminders.com/batterych ... c-249.html

[GAHorn]

Richard's experience w/ Odyssey's sounds very promising. Apparently Concorde has two models of sealed batteries that fit our type planes. One is about $25 less $$ and has less cranking power while the XC apparently has 325 cranking amps. The person passing this data to me said he heard that the higher the cranking amps the shorter the life of the battery. Fact or heresay?

Apples and Oranges exist in battery differences. ...higher capacity batteries will ordinarily have shorter lives due to higher power outputs. ....

Frank, battery "minders" have widely-varying quality of construction/operation. That term is intended to lead one to believe that batteries can be hooked up to them and ignored for long periods and the owner can return to find his battery fully-charged and without adverse effects on expected life. They were first developed to service ordinary lead-acid battery types, and some of the more expensive/sophisticated ones used technically-advanced "sine waves" or pulses to de-sulfate and treat those lead-acid types.
Unfortunately, as with many products, cheap imiations soon hit the market and used the same term "battery minder" when in fact they are nothing more than "trickle chargers"... low-amperage, constant-voltage units which, if left unattended for long periods, will have the same effect as more common chargers....they will slowly erode the batterys internal plates and cook-off the electrolyte until the battery is destroyed. The lowest-quality units are nothing more than cheap phone-chargers with battery clips, some of them not even filtered DC current but crude AC units with polarity surges merely delivered at higher voltages on alternate cycles!

Now comes the owner who converts from ordinary lead-acid to "gel cell" or "recombinant gas" or "glass mat" types of batteries, and doesn't read the battery mfr's fine print cautioning against the long-term use of "trickle chargers".... and discovers that his new style of battery is no better than the original lead-acid as far as life-expectancy is concerned.

The situation is further complicated by most owners misunderstanding of the purpose of their main ships battery. Most owners believe it's for the purpose of starting the engine. That is incorrect. Engine starting is merely a convenience. The REAL purpose of an aircraft battery is to provide an EMERGENCY SOURCE OF ELECTRICITY in the event of failure of all generated power! The battery is what will get you to the next landing at NIGHT or in IMC (Instument Meteorological Conditions, = clouds.) NOW that batterys capacity to produce serious electrical power iS IMPORTANT! And that is why it's imperative that we buy quality batteries that are legal for airplanes, and why it's important to replace worn out batteries when they are old and degraded, and why it's important to have their CAPACITY CHECKED EACH ANNUAL INSPECTION!

And "No."... confirming that the battery will still start the engine is NOT a valid battery capacity test for serious use. A serious user of an airplane should confirm that his battery has a 30-minute capacity to support essential services in night/IMC conditions (and is why the aircraft batteries are all certificated with 30 min capacity specifications. Your lawn-mower battery is not appropriate for aircraft use not only for that reason, but also because, unlike genuine aircraft batteries, the lawn mower units internal structure does not seperate the plates from warping/vibrations and shorting out in-flight and creating a battery FIRE!)

[canav8]

Frank yes I use Battery Minders for all my charging needs. Be very clear it is important that you must use the specific model for the type of battery you are using. They use different voltage scales when the resistance goes up. Your Odyssey battery will be short lived with using the wrong model of Battery Minder. Also sealed Lead Acid batteries also suffer because of heavy gassing issues. Doug

[N3548C]

I have a two-year-old battery that will not hold a charge. Yet if I put the charger on it at 4 amps it will spin like a top after 10 minutes. I have a generator that seems to be charging at an acceptable rate, and the rate declines as I fly. The battery does not seem to be drinking water. If I stop at the fuel farm the engine spins right over on restart. But a week later I will be lucky to start it.
My mechanic says airplane batteries won't hold much of a charge and has advised me to get a Battery Minder. The previous owner, an A&P himself, says get an alternator.
One thing I have learned in six months of airplane ownership is that there is nothing you can't get for an airplane. So I'm hoping to figure out what is going on before I go out and get something. Any thoughts?
Thanks, appreciated as always. This is a great forum and every 170 owner I know refers to it.

[GAHorn]

This is the classic symptom of a battery that has lost its capacity.
It will accept a"top" charge....but has no underlying capacity due to plate
deterioration from inactivity or internal leakage, or damage from overcharging with an inappropriate
shop charger.
An alternator conversion will not fix it...but will reduce your wallet.
There are many unknowlegable mechanics who think alternators will solve
the electrical problems they don't understand....but all this will likely do is make him
some money at your expense and leave you still with a bad battery.
If your generator puts out 13 volts (approx) above 1500 rpm....the problem
will be solved when you instal a new battery.

[n3833v]

Sometimes a battery is inactive for a period of time and it "sulfates". You need to charge to a warm batt fluid temp for about a half hr and disolve the crystals on the plates. A battery minder cannot charge the amperage to do this. Many times this extends the life of the battery.

John

[blueldr]

The answer is installation of a new $20 garden tractor battery annually.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George and John are probably right. The battery has lost it's ability to be charged in a mannor that allows it any capacity. But is it correctable is the question.

First one must remember aircraft batteries ARE NOT automotive batteries. They use a heavier electrolite. And so a battery testor or charger with circuitry for an automotive battery can not be used to AUTOMATICALY test the state of the battery or charge it to it's full state.

Find someone who understands batteries and the difference between aircraft and automotive batteries and have them charge and test it with the right equipment and knowledge. Only then will you know if you need a new battery or not.

In a lot of cases simply buying a new battery solves the problem you will ultimatly find should you be able to correctly charge and test the battery and that is the battery is no good any more for your purpose. But proving the battery to be the problem illiminates the possibility you don't have another problem or a bunch of small problems that have added up like dirty cable connections, bad cables or an under performing generator/regulator system.

[N3548C]

George and John are probably right. The battery has lost it's ability to be charged in a mannor that allows it any capacity. But is it correctable is the question.

First one must remember aircraft batteries ARE NOT automotive batteries. They use a heavier electrolite. And so a battery testor or charger with circuitry for an automotive battery can not be used to AUTOMATICALY test the state of the battery or charge it to it's full state.

Find someone who understands batteries and the difference between aircraft and automotive batteries and have them charge and test it with the right equipment and knowledge. Only then will you know if you need a new battery or not.

In a lot of cases simply buying a new battery solves the problem you will ultimatly find should you be able to correctly charge and test the battery and that is the battery is no good any more for your purpose. But proving the battery to be the problem illiminates the possibility you don't have another problem or a bunch of small problems that have added up like dirty cable connections, bad cables or an under performing generator/regulator system.

A common theme and more important, common sense approach has emerged. Many thanks, once again!

[GAHorn]

The answer is installation of a new $20 garden tractor battery annually.

Despite the fact they are priced as high as auto batteries used to be ($40 approx) they are still illegal in certificated aircraft which fly. However, one will suitably test (on the ground) the electrical system.