The International Cessna^® 170 Association

OK... Just to recap this conversation...

Folks who have them like them because they say it improves slow speed handling a lot.

VGs don't measureably improve takeoff performance...but they make the airplane feel more solid right down to a stall, with good aileron feel.



So.., ..why are we flying this slow for long periods that we need this "feel" changed? Isn't the sloppy aileron feel a good thing to warn us that we're too slow?

<joke>"Uh, yeah Doc. Everthang was goin' real good an' then WHAM! I wake up here with you!" <joke>

I mean, ... I land at places so short I can barely get back out of there, and if VGs don't get me back out of there .... why would I need to go slower and feel good about that? Virtually 100% of all places at which I land... I already feel good about. Why would I even want to fill out a form to win a drawing for them?

(No, I'm not trying to stir things up with those who have them and who clearly are glad they have them.... I'm just trying to figure out exactly what performance gain they provided that an unmodified airplane cannot also accomplish? So-far, these little things have worked marvels on high-speed jets and multi-engine Vmc numbers, but what are they really gonna do for a C-145 fixed pitch 170 "family car of the air"?)

(I believe It's a rhetorical question, and would encourage a wondering newbie to spend time practicing piloting skills than looking for magic bullets that likely won't even be on the next plane he flys. His improved skills will work on every plane, most of which do not have the things that feel good at speeds he'll likely never visit and shouldn't be attempting anyway.)

If you already have them, I'd certainly not spend any effort removing them, but if repainting the airplane....

(where's that little emoticon of that little guy stirring a pot..?? )

George, it is just something you have to experience to know why you want them and wouldn't remove them if you had them. But no one said you need them. Got it!

It was purely rhetorical. I have flown them on an early 182.

Pot Stirrer



W.

What were you cookin' up, Dubya!

MMO just for you........oooopppppssss that another one of those topics for a cold winter day and no flying eh.

Happy New Year George, and thanks for all your help n this forum!


W.

Allow me to introduce myself, I'm "DoubleOught" I live in Kountze TX. And hanger my 170B at 45R. This is my third 170 and fifth Cessna the newest was a '60 C175A oldest '48 straight wing 170 that had been metal covered. Been flying since '85 but started flying tail wheels about four years ago. Said all that to say this, I just had a Sportsman STOL kit and Micro VGs installed at the same time. No I'm not rich my any means. The handling is so improved you can't believe it. The book says stall with 40 degs of flaps is 52, my C170B , N3401C was stall around 48 to 49 mph, now with the above mods it's below 40 mph. I'm going to install an ASI tomorrow that registers 20 to 120 mph then I can get some better numbers. As far as takeoff it starts flying before 40 mph with control and authority. I've only flown it about three hrs. Since I got it back to 45R. Testing will continue, I'll keep you informed. N3401C has a mid time O300 it also has 3 flare tubes on the pilot side aft of the back window. I love this plane if you can't tell. OO

I think the angle of the pitot at slow speed is more of a problem for the ASI than the ASI's ability to register a correct slow speed. You may or may not find the 20-120 mph ASI more accurate with the same pitot angle.

I'm curious why you put both STOL and the VGs at the same time? I think I'd have done one or the other then maybe eventually both.

Several reasons as to why I did both mods at one time. 1. I did a lot of Q & A , not of people that sold them but of pilots that flew planes that had one mod or the other or both, I tried to find pilots that did not own the plane or had not paid for the mods. (I'm like you if I spend a lot of cash well of course it works.) this took about six years my first idea was to put them on a C175 but then I found taildraggers I'm so glad I ask all the questions, a brand X salesman convinced me on both, he sales one kind of stol A/C but flies a 170B with both mods same o300 same weight, same prop, same pilot. Lots of difference in performance . 2. Down time and painting , I figured it would be quicker to do both at once then paint the leading edge one time. 3. Cost it took me several years to save my nickels , dimes & quarters as I said I'm not rich by any means. OO

The main, most important thing is that YOU are happy with the money you spent without regard whether the results are as advertised or not.

Hopefully next week I can report on my new wing bling.
I think I'll like em tho.

2.5 hrs with the vg's on the 170. All I can say is WOW!!!!!! Best money I've spent on her. Had to learn how to fly the pattern again so I didn't float clear down the runway:)

Definitely makes a good bird better! Only bad side I see is when cleaning by them little shark teeth learned that the hard way already. Would like to see how they work at see level.

Good tip. Thanks. I imagine I'll lose a few from gravel off the horizontal but that's the fun part

Here's my new stall speed. Not really a stall any more, just a little nose drop and back to flying.
http://youtu.be/-FeZFlyH-3c