The International Cessna^® 170 Association

Kelly,I've met Jim before,but don't really know him. Seems to me that he's an Alaska Airlines guy? As I recall, he's got just about every mod on his early 180 that you can do.
Dave,I forgot to tell you that the guy I bought the jumpseat from just had the one side.
Re: the seatbelt attach, the Atlee-Dodge seats use the seat rails for a belt attach,but they're the Boeing-style rails. I assume the 206 seats use Cessna rails. BAS seats use Cessna rails,what does BAS do for belt attach on the approved 170 installation?
I'm planning to use a nutplate in the floor for the outboard attach,just like the (factory 180) inboard attach. I might use the hingey things bolted to the floor to bolt the belt to,instead of eyebolts and clip-on belt fittings. I got a copy of the applicable pages out of a friend's 180/185 IPC,the hingey-thing is more properly referred to as p/n 0711083-1 "latch assembly--seat belt".The page is listed under "divided middle row seat assembly",figure 65A. I think the floor nutplate will be simpler and better than the bracket route,for me anyway.

Eric

Eric
The 206 seats are not equipped for the belt attachment so I'll have to go to the airframe. My early 100 Series sercvce manual has some good information on the 185 belt locations. The measurement it gives for the position of the center belt nutplate is less than two inches aft of my stock rear seat aft center nutplate and I'm probably just going to use the existing nutplate. I would like to find the 0711083-1 hingy thing for at least the center attach point. It's also shown being used outboard as well. The outboard I really think the riveted in fitting is the most proper way to go and probably the easiest to get approved. Also probably the easiest to install. I need the part number of that little fitting if you can get it for me. I caution you against just using a nutplate outboard without proper engineering and beefup. You really want this to work for the sake of your friends and loved ones in the back!

Kelly Thanks for the help. Anything for me to have to show the Feds will help a lot.

I looked up that "hingey thing" (p/n 0711083-1) on "iwantcessnaparts" website & their price is like $130 each,list price is like $160. Wow! Kelly's idea of an eyebolt & clip-on belt fittings is sounding better & better. Or a bolt into the floor nutplate thru the belt fitting/bushing,using standard bolt-on belt fittings. Gotta give that some thought.
The ear or fitting used for the outboard belt attach doesn't have a part number on my exploded view.Looks like it comes attached to the airframe from the factory. A friend's 180 has the stock bench seat,and his outboard belt attach is to this ear also. Like I said,it looks like it's riveted in between the bulkhead & the outside skin--you'd have to drill out some rivets,work the ear into place between the bulkhead & skin without wrinkling anything (!),and re-rivet things. An outboard nutplate sounds way easier to me.

Eric

Eric

You're too afraid of a little riveting. It would be easy. You would have to open the rivet line one or two extra rivets beyond the fitting but then when it's riveted back the gap at the edges of the fitting would be between the former and the outer skin and really shouldn't show much if any wrinkle. I really can't remember but I think my stock 181 and on the early 180s I've owned is setup like our 170s with the belts on the seat. I think the riveted in fitting was later or part of the seat options. My early 100 series Service Manual is showing it in the 185 "safety belt and cargo tie down provisions". It should still have a part number if you're looking at a true 180/185 parts book. I think it should be the same thickness as the ears for the front seats but I'm not sure how many rivets to pick up and which ones or I'd just make them up.

As to the floppy hinge thing that's a pretty outragous price I'd say. I think I'll just unbolt the belts when I take the seat out as I won't be doing it more than a couple of times each Summer. Since I'm putting in BAS harnesses I'm planning to use the old front seat lap belt back there and it doesn't have the snaphook ends.

Where are you going to get the AN eyebolt? I'm looking and the AN43B eyebolt that has the 1/4" shank only has a 3/16" hole and we need a 1/4" hole. I wouldn't want to drill it out. I want to use the 1/4" nutplate for the rear seat center attach point. I might have to make an anged fitting like the front seatbelts use and bolt that to the nutplate. I guess I could put in a new AN366F-524 anchornut and then use an AN44-xxA eyebolt. I'm not sure it has the clearance for mounting the belts like the front seats though. I might have one at the hangar and will check it out tomorrow.

The parts book I looked at is for a mid/late 60's 180,it showed no part number for that ear or fitting rivetted at the bulkhead,at least on the jumpseat illustration figure. I thought the early 180 seatbelts are like our 170's.
I'm kinda leaning more toward bolting the belt to the floor,maybe using an angled fitting like you describe. I guess it depends on the precedent set by the approved 337's I'll be kinda working off of.

Eric

If you don't want to replace the rear seat, you can increase the utility of the area as follows. Replace the two bolts that mount the seatback to the bottom with two selflocking pins. This allows you to remove the seat back in about 30 seconds and in most cases this will allow you enough room to haul what you need without removing the seat bottom. If you do need to still remove the bottom, it is much easier to remove and replace because you do not have the backrest in the way to twist around in order to remove or reinstall the bottom.

Harold H

I did this with my bench seat.I bought "hitch pins" and "hitch pin clips" at my local True value Airmotive store. Works good. There's an article about this in either the SRAM book or the 170 Book,but the author cut off & drilled bolts instead of using ready-made pins.

Eric

Eric

I received from Velvet in yesterdays mail the STC and drawings for the sling rear seat. (Ordered before I bought the 206 seat) They have excellent drawings of the seat belt fittings and I suggest you have a look at them. The outboard fitting is drawn full scale, 4130 steel .063" AND it is "a direct copy of C180 P/N 0711084-15 & -16 lh & rh". The center attach is a simple strap/tang that bolts to the existing rear sear nutplate plus to a new nutplate added 2 1/4"aft of that one. It's 3/4" wide and about 4 3/4" overall length bent up 45 degrees at the front. 4130 .125"

I'm thinking that by providing the Feds with a copy of this Canadian approved paperwork it will go a long way toward getting approval for the installation. Another reason to use the 180 fitting.

So Dave,are you still gonna go with the 206 seat, or with the sling? Seems like the sling would be more versatile,it might be a better choice if it wasn't too much more work to fabricate or install. You can no doubt sell off the 206 seat with little trouble if you wanted to.
How much hassle is involved with the sling seat?

Eric

Sorry been gone a few days. I'm planning on the 206 seat unless I don't like what I see when it gets here. It'll come out easy from the tracks, be more comfortable, and I can put seat tracks in faster than I can fabricate all the parts for the sling. I think it will also be easier to get the 206 seat pproved even though the sling has a one time Canadian approval. I really liked the seat belt attach drawings though.

Windshield is all fit up and will get installed tomorrow. Next put the panel back together and hang the engine hopefully by months end. After it's flying I'll work on these other little things!

I have a question for anyone who's running Atlee-Dodge or BAS folding rear seats. What do you use for rear seat-belt attach points?
I believe the Atlee-Dodge clips the seat-belt to cargo rings that slide into the seat rails. What does the BAS 170 installation use?

Eric

zero.one.victor wrote:I have a question for anyone who's running Atlee-Dodge or BAS folding rear seats. What do you use for rear seat-belt attach points?
I believe the Atlee-Dodge clips the seat-belt to cargo rings that slide into the seat rails. What does the BAS 170 installation use?

Eric

You are correct about the Atlee Dodge rear seat belt attachment.

Being an animal lover, I've been thinking about volunteering my time and 170 for Sky Ark missions transporting service animals, etc in kennels. I'll need a good quick way of getting the rear seat in and out. One option is the folding jump seats, but how comfortable are they for rear seat passengers on 3 hour flights? My children will be back there...one in a car seat, so I don't want them to be "rigged up camp seats" for three hours. Another option is to install the hitch pins to enable the rear seat back to come out pronto, and then take out the bottom as before by removing the four bolts. Another option involves replacing the side bolts in the factory seat with spring-loaded hitch pins with the little ball bearings that pop out at the end to lock the pin in place. One of my factory side bolt nut plates is stripped out anyway and it is nothing more than a shear pin right now. I'd leave the forward and aft center bolts as they are...well actually the aft center nut plate is stripped as well, but I have a longer bolt and lock nut in that location...but will get that nutplate replaced at next annual.

The BAS seats in my 181 had about 1/2" of the Insulfoam I think it's called, like the ear plugs are made out of that conforms to your body. They were pretty comfortable as far as seats go. Kids have better support in the rear compared to some of us old folk. The seats did take up some room in the folded up position.