This thread stated back when my Gill sealed battery wouldn't hold a charge either. It was, as I recall, about 3 yrs old and if I flew every few days it worked as it should, but let it set for a week or longer and it didn't have the juice to crank the engine. I could put a charger on it for a short time and it cranked just fine and would do so all day long as many times as needed. The solution for me was a new Concorde sealed battery which lightened my gross weight by $200 , but now it starts every time without hesitation. You might get real lucky and get your old battery to return to its proper operation, but it is doubtful. Too bad we can't legally use the non approved batteries like the home builders do. Sure would save a lot of $$$.
Just found out a friend with an RV-6 with an IO-360 Lycoming is running with auto spark plugs. First I had heard of this being done. Is this common practice? Now when he finds a need for replacements he has to fork over $4-5 each for 8 while the rest of us with certified aircraft get to fork over $25 + each Sure answers some of the questions why home built planes are so popular.
remember batteries for not for starting they are for emergency electrical power if all generated electric power dies. That is why battery CAPACITY is more important than its starting ability.
aircraft batteries are much better designed than auto batteries
they have insulating mats between each plate to guard against internal shorts.
the last thing you want in flight is a battery fire.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Yea, that is exactly what my friend said he was using on his Lycoming. Pretty cool deal provided the auto plugs preform as well as our unrealistically expensive ones do.
You can test the capacity of the battery with the test called out in the battery owner's manual. http://www.gillbatteries.com/pdfs/Flood ... Manual.pdf Gill says to discharge the battery at the 1-hour rate (eg. 25A for a 25Ah battery) until the voltage drops to 10.0V. If that takes 80% of an hour or more (48min) then your battery has proper capacity. That's Gill's definition of airworthy. If it fails the test you should do a constant current charge, also called an equalization charge. For a battery that's only two years old I'd expect a CC charge to get you back up over 80%. I once had a battery that showed 30% capacity but I got it back up to 93% with several discharge-CC charge cycles.
The discharge test is hard if you don't have a specialized tester, like the TCT-1000 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... ct1000.php. I'm lucky that my mechanic has one. But the capacity test is less important than actually charging the battery. The CC charge should be done at fairly low currents, 1-5 A. There are lots of DC power supplies available that have adjustable current limit.
I guess I/we should have split the spark plug topic from the battery topic. "Sorry"! Dick I agree that the EFii folks are rather proud of their products. However if one overlooks the legality of auto plugs and the fact that I believe it requires an electronic ignition system which likely isn't available on O300 Continentals, once you get past the initial cost of the adapters ($164 I think) then paying anywhere from $6.00 to $12.00, depending upon type of plug (I used my Toyota Tacoma as the vehicle for which I got online prices) that would become a rather nice savings over the life of our engines. The REM40E plugs are going for around $26.50 from Spruce ($318 for 12) vs anywhere from $67 to $144 for the automotive ones. However its a mute issue since we can't do the conversion. My friend says he changes his plugs every 2-3 years just because they are such a low cost item.
You can test the capacity of the battery with the test called out in the battery owner's manual. http://www.gillbatteries.com/pdfs/Flood ... Manual.pdf Gill says to discharge the battery at the 1-hour rate (eg. 25A for a 25Ah battery) until the voltage drops to 10.0V. If that takes 80% of an hour or more (48min) then your battery has proper capacity. That's Gill's definition of airworthy. If it fails the test you should do a constant current charge, also called an equalization charge. For a battery that's only two years old I'd expect a CC charge to get you back up over 80%. I once had a battery that showed 30% capacity but I got it back up to 93% with several discharge-CC charge cycles.
The discharge test is hard if you don't have a specialized tester, like the TCT-1000 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... ct1000.php. I'm lucky that my mechanic has one. But the capacity test is less important than actually charging the battery. The CC charge should be done at fairly low currents, 1-5 A. There are lots of DC power supplies available that have adjustable current limit.
You can test the capacity of the battery with the test called out in the battery owner's manual. http://www.gillbatteries.com/pdfs/Flood ... Manual.pdf Gill says to discharge the battery at the 1-hour rate (eg. 25A for a 25Ah battery) until the voltage drops to 10.0V. If that takes 80% of an hour or more (48min) then your battery has proper capacity. That's Gill's definition of airworthy. If it fails the test you should do a constant current charge, also called an equalization charge. For a battery that's only two years old I'd expect a CC charge to get you back up over 80%. I once had a battery that showed 30% capacity but I got it back up to 93% with several discharge-CC charge cycles.
The discharge test is hard if you don't have a specialized tester, like the TCT-1000 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... ct1000.php. I'm lucky that my mechanic has one. But the capacity test is less important than actually charging the battery. The CC charge should be done at fairly low currents, 1-5 A. There are lots of DC power supplies available that have adjustable current limit.
I have turned up a product called a Battery Tender. It sounds like it might be a good rig because it will charge at a 1.5-amp rate but will not, mfr. Deltran says, overcharge the battery. Anyone familiar with such a rig? I won't be to do the capacity test, but I can certainly cycle the battery until, hopefully, it comes into its own.
I have battery tenders on the two ATVs up in Pellow Pine, Idaho, that I use during the summer if I'm up there. They keep those small batteries full up and have done it for many seasons now.
I have two of the same battery tenders on my two Ford Explorers at home when I'm gone, and another two for my two Vespa motor scooters at my home.
Before I sold my airplane I used one on it too.
They all came from Harbor Freight Tools. They all work just fine and cost about $5.00 each.
Selling for only five bucks, there must be some reason why they're the wrong thing to use, but I forget what it is.
George will know.
N3548C wrote:I have turned up a product called a Battery Tender. It sounds like it might be a good rig because it will charge at a 1.5-amp rate but will not, mfr. Deltran says, overcharge the battery. Anyone familiar with such a rig? I won't be to do the capacity test, but I can certainly cycle the battery until, hopefully, it comes into its own.
These are the electronic chargers you need to be concerned about because if they are not designed to specifically charge a aircraft battery which has different specifications than an automotive battery. When contacting Deltran specify your charging an aircraft battery. I don't see any of their products being marketed as being for aviation batteries.
Deltran's competition BatteryMinder http://batteryminders.com/ does have aviation chargers and minders. I like BatteryMinder and have two of their automotive minders which I use for my motorcyle and tractor over the winter months. The BatteryMinder Aviation chargers cost a lot more than their automotive products. BatteryMinder's automotive products are comparable in price to the Deltran which makes me think the Deltran won't work with aircraft batteries because if they did BatteryMinder wouldn't be able to sell their expensive product.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
BTW if your battery is in a bad state but recoverable, a trickle type minder like the BatterMinder won't do it. They aren't designed to do this and they won't because they don't have enough power. They will however keep a good battery in excellent condition and extend it's life. At least that has been my experience with motorcycle batteries.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
blueldr wrote:...
They all came from Harbor Freight Tools. They all work just fine and cost about $5.00 each.
Selling for only five bucks, there must be some reason why they're the wrong thing to use, but I forget what it is.
George will know.
Yep. Its because Harbor Freight specifically states they are for flooded cell automotive batteries
only.
Do not use them for unattended charging.....and Concorde says not to use them on their sealed
(gel) batteries.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Damn! I told you I was lucky. I don't think I've ever had any battery in any piece of equipment , including airplanes, that wasn't a flooded cell type.
I've always admitted that as a last resort the directions probably should be read, even on those Harbor Freight Tools co. battery "Float Chargers".
I'm not really sure I know what "Unattended Charging" is. I seldom sit around watching a battery being charged anyway. Sounds kinda like watching paint drying.
Too much excitement for a guy my age.
Well... I hate to admit this...but I have first-hand experience with not reading the instuctions.
Long story - short: I had to replace a 8 month old Concorde VRLA which they refused to warranty because I didn't do the reading. (Regular warranty on these batts in a recip is 2 yrs.)
PS: Those batteries are now $188 each.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Cessna® is a registered trademark of Textron Aviation, Inc. The International Cessna® 170 Association is an independent owners/operators association dedicated to C170 aircraft and early O-300-powered C172s. We are not affiliated with Cessna® or Textron Aviation, Inc. in any way.
, but now it starts every time without hesitation. You might get real lucky and get your old battery to return to its proper operation, but it is doubtful. Too bad we can't legally use the non approved batteries like the home builders do. Sure would save a lot of $$$. 
Sure answers some of the questions why home built planes are so popular.
on O300 Continentals, once you get past the initial cost of the adapters ($164 I think) then paying anywhere from $6.00 to $12.00, depending upon type of plug (I used my Toyota Tacoma as the vehicle for which I got online prices) that would become a rather nice savings over the life of our engines. The REM40E plugs are going for around $26.50 from Spruce ($318 for 12) vs anywhere from $67 to $144 for the automotive ones. However its a mute issue since we can't do the conversion. My friend says he changes his plugs every 2-3 years just because they are such a low cost item.
