Wheel Pants

[blueldr]

John,
YOU DA MAN!

[gtboone]

I am thinking about buying a set of carbon fiber replica wheel pants from Lahti Aerospace. Has anybody had any experience with them? I would love to know what you think of them.

[Ryan Smith]

If I recall, John Barrett has them installed on his airplane. It was my first experience seeing them in person, and it wasn't until I looked closely that I realized that they weren't metal. The fit and finish of them is incredible, and I really like that they have raised rivet detail and look like well-fitting metal pants unlike some of the fiberglass pants I've seen on the market. Unless you're going to polish your wheelpants, I see absolutely no reason to have metal pants. They are quite a bit more fragile and don't hold up as well as the carbon pants. Also, the carbon pants can be had for less than half of the cost that I've seen a nice pair of aluminum pants go for. I have a set of original metal pants that my father gave to me for when I buy a 170, but I have no intention of using them after having seen the Lahti Aerospace pants. I also will be installing brake fairings on my wheelpants as I really like the aesthetic, and I would much rather drill holes in replicas than the originals.

[bagarre]

I've heard stories that the composite pants are so strong you can stand on top of them. Don't try that with the aluminum cause they will get wrecked! If I didn't have originals, I would probably buy the carbon fiber ones.

I have fiberglass ones and stand on them all the time. So much that I've considered putting a strip on non-skid tape on them. At first, I was really gentile about it but now I just use them as a step stool. Not a crack in 3 years.

[Ryan Smith]

I weigh just a shade over 300 pounds, so I don't think I'll be trying that trick any time soon. There is a picture of a more normal sized guy standing on top of the wheelpants on the Lahti Aerospace site.

Funny story, I bought a VW Passat wagon a few years ago from a dealership in Milwaukee. I saw the car advertised the day before, called the dealership to tell them to hang onto it as I was going to be driving up from central Illinois to look at it, which was about a 5 hour drive. Upon arriving at the dealership, the salesman that I had an appointment was working with another couple so my wife and I ended up with another salesman who was none too bright. He entertained us for a while until our salesman closed the deal he was working on when we arrived, so he brought the car around and was showing it off. As I had done my research and was going to drive away with that car provided it was in as good of shape as advertised, I was just going along with his sales schpeal. He opens the door and starts talking about the door hinges being machined aluminum and very strong and said "Look you can even hang off the door!". He was a really small guy that was probably 130 pounds soaking wet in a winter coat, and when he looked at me and implored me to try, I gave him a disgusted stare and said that no further demonstration was necessary. When we went on a test drive, he had us pull into his dad's driveway and he pulled out the owner's manual from the glovebox and started reading some stuff off to us, and even offered to go inside and grab some beverages.

Needless to say, I was glad when our salesman was freed up.

[gtboone]

Thanks for your comments Ryan. I think I am going to give them a try. I think I am also interested in some gap seals, any comments there?

[johneeb]

Gap seals on the B model flaps ruin them.

Arish,
Did you mean that flap gap seals change stall speed? If so no more august an authority then Aviation Consumer in their February publication disagree with you. Several places in the article on Gap Seals the found that they had no effect on stall speed. Unfortunately one has to be a subscriber to read their article online so I will paraphrase one section of the article that covers Horton Gap Seals and their conclusion:

"It seems Horton has been making STOL kits and speed mods for Cessna's since Clyde built his second airplane. It offers aileron and flap gap seals for a wide variety of Cessna singles, all strut-braced, through the 1986 model year. Aileron gap seals are the buyer's choice of aluminum or. fiberglass. The seal is attached to the rear spar of the wing. The Horton representative we spoke with told us that the company's experience was that the aileron gap seal gave at least a 2 MPH increase in cruise speed, but that the big improvement was in roll rate and low-speed handling, particularly on landing. The flap gap seals are aluminum with silicone adhesive and are secured using blind rivets to the rear spar, flap support brackets and flap well bulkheads. The Horton representative did not claim any increase in cruise speed. He noted that because Cessna used Fowler flaps that moved aft and down during extension that there had been concern about an increase in stall speed with flap gap seals. He said that testing by the company and the FAA for the STC revealed no change in stall speeds......................................CONCLUSION We think gap seals will result in some modest speed increase- on the order of one to two percent, which could get lost in measurement error. The major benefit of aileron gap seals, it appears to us, is in handling and control authority in roll. We did not see any indication of increased stall speeds with flap gap seal - and with aileron gap seals, the stall speed may go down slightly. "

[johneeb]

Arish,
I have not had that experience, however I have not flown a 170 without gap seals in quite awhile. I actually have an opposite reaction (maybe it is the weight of my engine) it reminds me of a 727 if you can see it over the nose with full flaps you can make it (they didn't call her Miss Piggy for nothing, she loved to rout around in the ground).

[Ryan Smith]

I didn't see any problems with John's when I flew it, granted most of you guys have more 170 time in the past week than I've had in six years. It came down just fine with 30 degrees of flap; as fast as I would want/need to get down under normal circumstances. Granted, without them, our 170 came down at what seemed like a 35 degree angle with about a 250 foot rollout with just me in the airplane. I love the way they look, but with 65 extra horsepower, it's hard to extrapolate any speed increase with them on John's airplane. Even in a normal landing configuration, unless you're trying to get in and out of strips under 1000' long consistently, I don't see much need for them.

They're on my (long) wish list of things for '56D right now.

[c170b53]

Well from a forum perspective there has been tons of testimony so far. Mixing seals and gaps might make this conversation go even further but as I know it, in the Horton stall kit; the gap seals are those small strips of metal that seal (reduce) the gap between the T/E surfaces and installed along with the leading edge cuff, L/E inboard fence and wing top fence . The flap seal is that 4 inch wide strip that covers the wings lower surface flap well. That seal seems to be less popular .
Cleaning out the plane today and I came across the flap well kit that I got in the Bardstown silent auction. I think the kit was owned by Ed Booth. I thought I'd play with it and see if I could make it into a moveable trailing edge slot. When I find the time of course

[edbooth]

Not sure how this went from wheel pants to gap seals, but my comment on that is: having learned to fly about 55 years ago, mostly by "seat of pants" , this is how I kinda gauge aircraft performance. I have aileron and flap seals on my 53 B. The flap seals were installed about 25 years ago and at the time it seemed to me that I could lower final approach speed 3-5 mph. I just recently installed aileron seals...just to have something to do. I can't tell any measurable difference. I guess the main thing is the flap gap seals look nice

[GAHorn]

The main attraction of gap seals is to prevent loss of lift thru the gap (where high pressure air below the wing will escape to the low pressure area above the wing.) This makes sense as long as one doesn't have "Frieze" type ailerons (such as some Aeroncas and others) which drop their leading edge into the high pressure area to increase aileron effectiveness. (Aileron seals may work wonderfully on a 170 but I wouldn't want to lose the ability to inspect counterweights as easily on preflights, nor would I want the addt'l maintenance.)

The problem I see with flap gap seals on Fowler/semi-fowler type flaps is, that while extending flaps on sealed OR un-sealed flaps will create DRAG.... the flap gap seal will prevent the additional LIFT provided by Fowler type flaps because the seal will decrease that air movement. (Technically, flap seals will also reduce induced drag because of the loss of lift as well.)