The International Cessna^® 170 Association

mike roe wrote:I read Georges last post and this is what I got from it-
the use of non-ethanol gas is probably OK

I believe that is a true statement!

Having said that, it's the "probably" part and the associated list of requirements to make it safe that I am at odds with.

Don't miss the fact I consider the recipie to be unreliable and unproven as to safety-of-use in fuel systems and materials designed 60 years ago. Just because someone operated their engines and systems for 150 hours (not considering the chronological long term effects) doesn't mean the FAA's "blessing" equates to the same level of safety as the avgas fuels which have been specifically designed, purposed, and used for 40-plus years.

I also don't need a scientist in a laboratory to tell me mogas kills my equipment. I've seen that first hand, ...I know what fuel did it....and that is NOT anecdotal, or" based on reports of unscientific observers." It's factual and first-hand-knowledge.

Parse that however you want. Some people simply won't believe it until they email me privately wanting to know where to send their carburetors for overhaul like two Members did just this week.

I do not understand if Mogas is so harmful to aircraft, why is it sold at approx. 200 airports in the country. Do they not understand the liability issues. I do not remember signing a waiver when filling up. I am sure George and associates have had some bad experiences. But I think for the majority if used IAW the STC its been fine, and some cases better than 100LL. Just my worthless comment for the month.
Mike Roe

mike roe wrote: But I think for the majority if used IAW the STC its been fine, and some cases better than 100LL.

The argument isn't against Mogas. If you can find Mogas that conforms to the STC, you're fine.
The argument is against Ethanol laced gas, which is what 95% of the gas out there is and doesn't conform to the STC.

When I used mogas from the airport, I had no problems. To buy mogas from a regular station for autos, I have a problem with the storage and possible mixtures added from fuel delivery transports since they clean out their lines with what is available. Since our airports don't carry mogas anymore, I use my avgas so that I don't run the risk of contaminations from poor storage and deliveries.

John

The argument is with BOTH types of Mogas. Some in the club have been against non ethanol for years. Which is fine. My experience with using it has been no lead fouling of the plugs and no stuck valves. We are lucky being by the water and marinas, so we have access to non ethanol, which I test every time and it goes thru a filterbefore going in the plane. You also do not have to carry TCP in the plane which is hazardous. You can use Decatin(?) which is safer but if I understand not approved. So that puts you in the same category as running ethanol mogas.
Mike

Mike, the product to which you refer is "Decalin". I talked to them to see if they'd confirm their base is not alcohol. (If you read the description, it sure looks like alcohol.) They assured me it was NOT alcohol...but they wanted me to demonstrate to them I was not a potential competitor before they'd share their recipie. (I want to KNOW what they're mixing the tricresylphosphate with.... the label resembles alcohol.)

Anyway... I don't use Decalin. And I haven't used Alcor TCP for over a year now, as well. I lean aggresively. Yes, the plugs still collect lead deposits, which I blast away every 50 hours of operations and I hate it.

I wish we could get ordinary AvGas...without lead. I wish they'd let the purchaser select the amount of "lead" or "no lead" AT THE PUMP....just like the autogas people did for years at Conoco and Gulf stations.

Alas. They don't seem to care. I suppose it's because the gov't won't give them an expensive grant to research how to not add lead to avgas.

If you can get quality mogas that meets the ASTM req'd of the STC, without lead, and use it promptly and completely, so as to not allow any of it to sit for months in your airplane tanks....then that should be good enough for low powered airplanes like ours with metal fuel system components. I just (almost) never run my reserve-fuel completely out of my airplane.

(But beware that some hoses and gaskets and o-rings may deteriorate more rapidly than expected. Plastic floats may sink, and before long Kelly will probably come up with a yet another color plastic and mandatory service bulletin for their floats.)

If anyone is interested, the following is an in depth study on this topic carried out in my Alma Mater, RWTH Aachen (Rheinisch Westfaelische Technische Hochschule, Aachen) Germany. It's got a lot of nuts and bolts, pretty interesting.

http://www.easa.europa.eu/safety-and-re ... -light.pdf

I spoke with Peter Rouse (FAA-He wrote the SAIB, below and is an advocate for affordable GA) at length about this topic. Being in his position he is a pretty good friend of Todd Petersen, the STC holder for Autogas, so he knows this topic inside out. If we could only get an STC to replace the vulnerable parts, solving the issue of BTU-loss and vapor-lock...

http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/saibs/10_27 ... -07-06.pdf

Interesting read, thanks for posting.


W.

Aryana have any idea what it will cost? Octane level?


W.

That figures....Wouldn't want to pass on any savings to the end user, now would we?

I would hope that an unleaded, alcohol free, av gas would be a little less expensive inasmuch as it could be pipelined and would not have to have dedicated transportation equipment as does the leaded 100 LL.
Does anyone know whether or not alcohol laced mogas is pipelined and stored that way or is the alcohol added as it leaves the bulk plant for delivery?

I believe its added at the tank farm by the driver, according to the recipients fuel order.