Stall warning failure

[CGFlyer]

Trying to keep it brief: I bought this plane in October with a fresh annual. However, it does not have operational stall warning as far as i can tell. Serial #20445, in the parts manual shows a stall warning indicator on the left side of the panel (Item 57 in the diagram). In that location on my panel, there is the VOR instrument. Next to that, manifold pressure. There is a suspicious hole about the size of a half dollar, in the center of the panel, below the DG indicator. Could this be where a light would go? And maybe the horn is in a different location, like the back of the glove box like other models?

I need some help please.

[n2582d]

Dan,
That hole below your DG was for the knob on a horizontal card Jack & Heinz DG as seen here. Does your plane have a stall vane switch on the left wing? If so, I'd start by putting a jumper wire between the terminals there (or ground the hot wire) and see if that results in any horn sound when the master is switched on. Like you suggested, the horn would most likely be located behind the glove box as on the late model 170B's.

Stall Warning Horn.png

[CGFlyer]

Gary,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I definitely have the switch in the left wing. I also have the Sportsman STOL kit, but that's another topic.

I dont see anything mounted on the glovebox, nor any brackets or screw holes nearby.

The investigation continues...

[TCU76109]

Did you talk to the IA that signed it off to see if it was inspected? If you start the conversation in a friendly way (I’m a new owner trying to understand this…) it might shed some light.

Try Air Salvage of Dallas (972) 227-1111 for the part.

If you’re unable to find a vintage horn, you might want to talk to whoever is maintaining the plane moving forward about whether they’d be willing to install a modern buzzer if you can’t source an original part.

[CGFlyer]

100% intend on having that conversation with the IA. I wanted to do some research before doing that. Greatly appreciate your reply and I will reach out to Air Salvage of Dallas.

[CGFlyer]

Thank you Bob, for the "new" pre-stalling warning horn! Installed it and it works perfectly! Almost flies like a new plane now.

The people and knowledge on this forum are fantastic.

[rnealon1]

Thank you Bob, for the "new" pre-stalling warning horn! Installed it and it works perfectly! Almost flies like a new plane now.

The people and knowledge on this forum are fantastic.

Just happy to pass on the help we have received here.

Enjoy!

Bob

[GAHorn]

100% intend on having that conversation with the IA. I wanted to do some research before doing that. Greatly appreciate your reply and I will reach out to Air Salvage of Dallas.

Let me suggest an imaginary conversation with the IA who last signed-off on the Annual:

You: “Hi there!… I have a question… Could you show me how to test the stall warning? I heard it was required equipment.”

IA: “Well…all you have to do is Turn ON the Master Switch…and then lift-up on this little tab on the left wing… Like THIS…
uH… Hmmn… this doesn’t seem to be working…. We’ll have to repair this before I sign-off another inspection….Lessee…
that’ll be $100 per hour while I repair it… Plus any parts necessary…IF we can FIND the parts…”

You: “Well… I can’t find the horn AT ALL.. Can you show me where it’s installed?”

IA: “Sure…. Hmmmn…. Oh…. Has someone ELSE been working on your plane..?? I’m sure it was here and working when I signed
off on your Annual.”

You: “No. No one has worked on my plane since you signed off my Annual”

IA: “Well… you must have been Robbed! …because I certainly wouldn’t have signed it off if it didn’t work!
You realize if you fly it …YOU will be at Fault don’t you? You’d better hope you don’t get caught or have an accident!”

IA, Thinking to Self: (I wonder if I missed that when I inspected it? The only way I can avoid penalties from FAA is if I self-report…
… I’ll probably lose this customer anyway…. especially after FAA calls him and grounds his airplane or issues him a Violation)

You, Thinking to Self: (This guy is never going to admit his mistake… And even if he Did… I AM the one who’s gonna have to pay
for HIS error… Meanwhile, My airplane is Illegal to fly the insurance I’m paying-for is not valid if I fly it…. Hope when he
reports to FAA I don’t get a Violation or Suspension for operating in violation of the Type Certificate)

You, after further thought: (Maybe I SHOULD fill out a NASA Blue Form and report this to FAA… I’m gonna have to fix it either way…
…and this guy isn’t gonna work on my ‘plane again after I report him…. What if he tells the other A&P/IA’s in the area I’m
troublesome…???)

https://pilotworkshop.com/tips/nasa-for ... y%2520NASA.

To fill out the form electronically… be certain to PRINT yourself a copy BEFORE submission:
https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/electronic.html

[cessnut]

Let me suggest another conversation where you act like a decent human and simply confront your IA with his mistake and see what he has to say for himself. The hypothetical situation George has presented is simply that- hypothetical. Perhaps the guy made a mistake. I would like to inform all you old-timers that we aren't living in the glory days of general aviation anymore. Maintaining these 75 year old airplanes isn't as easy as it appears when you read these forums. Some IAs are better than others, but most of us are reluctant to sign annuals on these old things for many reasons, not the least of which is the unapproved owner maintenenance which happens all the time, even on this forum. Most of us try really hard, but at the end of the day we are trying to ensure that your ancient aircraft and engine are not going to kill you next year. Sometimes we make mistakes. It's easy to cast judgement when you are the subject matter expert on a particular airframe. If I had to make a living doing annual inspections on nothing but Cessna 170s, my kids would be pretty hungry.

[DaveF]

How about this: “Hey, that 70-year old stall horn finally quit working. Can you take a look at it?”

[CGFlyer]

Thanks for all the help. In his defense, The IA found a couple of critical safety items that he was able to address before we ferried it home. I'm overall very happy with his work. I won't be back because he's halfway across the country, but I would if I were closer.

[c170b53]

Good , better, best, all hard to achieve and appreciate. As Cessnut says who and what is perfect (well I mean other maybe me ) Its all just learning points, often perfected over a series of annuals. Or as a famous quote “ There’s nothing I hate more than, someone who is intolerant of other peoples culture and the Dutch.

[GAHorn]

Cessnut makes valid points.

In my earlier post, it was not my intention to cast dispersions upon the IA… Nor was it to provoke paranoia for owners OR IA’s.

It was my Intention …. (perhaps not well-illustrated) …to Prevent misguided behaviors that can lead to deeper problems.

While the scenario I earlier posted was not “hypothetical”… it was purely Imaginary…. it was Intended to diminish the age-old problem of holding accountability in the wrong manner.

Cessnut is correct,…. the Best thing to do is to discuss the situation in a friendly manner with the IA… with a purpose of correcting the discrepancy.

That Imaginary Discussion/Thought-process was prompted by an ACTUAL EVENT… One which occurred to Our Friend and Fellow TIC170A Member, Bob Edmondson, when he owned a C-175 with improperly signed-off Annual Inspections based-on Inoperable Equipment and illegal repairs. The IA in that matter was Ardmore, Oklahoma A&P/IA Jim Bell….. who, when confronted by Bob over the improperly-signed-off Annual Inspection…. Surrendered his own certificates to FAA…. who then came after Bob for operating the airplane with known discrepancies.

Hence my suggestion to submit the ASRS “Nasa Blue Form” is something to consider. There is no requirement to reveal the identity of the IA.

[c170b53]

Cessnut makes valid points.

He certainly got this right on some of us

all you old-timers

.
Its all good stuff, George, Cessnut, I used to be one of the young guys when I fell in with these fine folks. Time is another thing that flies.

[cessnut]

This a good group of people and I have found a lot of good information here. I have loved the old Cessnas since my dad helped me build my first Guillows 170 balsa model, and I want to help keep them airworthy well into the future. With the dwindling number of good IAs available, my point was simply to give the guy the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong.
There are definitely some shady characters that I wish would get weeded out. I see their handiwork on a regular basis. Maybe the only reason they still operate is because they appeal to cheapskate owners. If you have a good, conscientious, reasonable IA that is open to discussion, consider yourself fortunate in today's environment.