The International Cessna^® 170 Association

Hello Folks,

I have been a C170A member for a few years now and have a few questions for our members.

I purchased N4126F, a 1959 C-172, since I was/am a low time private pilot and trained in M model 172s. I wanted a 170 but had no tail wheel time, and the straight-tail 172s are an under valued (i.e. cheaper) vintage model than the 170s. N4126F is my first plane, and the one that my Dad took his last ride in. Mom had just passed suddenly and he passed a few weeks later - it was the only smile I saw him make at a sad time. Obviously, I am fond of this machine. Well, time passes and I now have 500 hrs as PIC, have made several long cross country trips in 4126F, and have passed the written exam for the instrument rating. I wanted more/better cross country capability so I purchased a 76 C-177B with all the bells and whistles (GNS 430W, Sys 50 w/ GPS Steer, Stormscope, KX-155 w/ GS). The original plan was to sell 4126F, but fortunately I came to my senses in time and talked a potential buyer out of buying it. My much, much better half even acquiesced in keeping 4126F although she prefers to ride in the Cardinal. (Am I a lucky guy or what? ) Anyway, as much as I like 4126F I admit to tailwheel and round-tail envy . If 4126F was not to be my cross country mount, it is my vintage ride - the preferred OSH trip maker (can park in the vintage area vs North or South 40, and the preferred $100 hamburger getter. (It always gets admiring glances that my friends more modern mounts don't.) All of this helps you guys understand why I ask the following questions:

1. What is involved in converting a straight-tail C-172 (a 172 model, not a later A,B,C etc model) to a taildragger? I believe the 172 was certified on the same T.C. as the 170. It shares the same fuselage, engine, and wings with the 170. Paperwork- is a STC required or could this be a 337? Parts - is it a matter of finding old 170 parts and bolting them on. My present nose gear strut came from a member who converted his straight tail to a TD and from reading posts I have seen several straight tail TDs (e.g. Old Pokey). I searched our archives, but didn't find a thread addressing this particular situation.

2. Is it possible (paperwork wise) to change the straight-tail to a round-tail if I could find the tail feathers from a parted out 170B?

3. Finally, before buying the Cardinal, I bought a baggage door intending to install. I know this requires a STC. I think Del-Air is the go-to for this. Correct? Anyone have the contact info and name?

Regards,
Pete Porebski
N4126F, 1959 C-172
N4126P, 1976 C-177B
N426JP, 2015? Falco F8.l

Perhaps some of our more learned members such as Brad or others can give you some advise on your questions. While physically possible (I think) I suspect the paperwork might be the biggest hill to climb. Since Cessna mated a 172 tail feathers on what they at one time thought might be a 170C model, I see no reason why physically you couldn't mate 170 tail feathers onto your 172. There is at least one STC out there to do the gear conversion. Fravel is the one I know of. The Bolen STC used on my plane was purchased by some folks named Williams in Kansas and I don't think they support it today. I know of one former 170 member who has an early model 172 that he has done some work to convert it to a Fravel mod and might be interested in selling it if you are interested. Were it not for the sentimental situation with our 172, it would be easier and probably less expensive to find a nice, late model 170. Good luck with your project and keep us up to date on how it is going.

Pete, at the present time it is not impossible but a very long road to accomplish this. You will not be happy with the outcome though as it relates to your family of aviators. You see this type of mod would change the category of certification. Presently your aircraft is in the Standard Airworthiness category. By making this change of the tail you would have to re certify this aircraft in the experimental air racing category or the restricted category only. Both of these categories do not afford you the benefit to carry passengers so your wife could not fly in it with you. There is no way around this. Many have tried and been very disappointed. The best way to do this is buy a Cessna 140. It is a little smaller but it can be had for under 15K and it has a round tail. Doug

I always thought the 170C was a great looking airplane.

But, by the time you pay for the tailwheel conversion you'd be close to buying a cheaper 170 anyways. (Heh, this from the guy gearing up for a 210hp conversion)

Unless your 172 is the primo spotless perfect example of a 60 year old airplane, I'd save my pennies and buy a decent $30k 170 and spruce it up some.

Thanks for the replies. I have always read that the 172 was originally certified on the 170 type certificate. I Googled both type certificates, the 172, 3A12, & the 170, A-799. I didn't see both models listed on either one. Can anyone point me to that original T.C.?

You cannot convert a C-172 to a C-170. It may have a tail wheel, but it will always be a C-172 as far as the FUZZ is concerned.

I've never heard and I doubt the 170 and the 172 where ever on the same certificate. There was to much of a difference between the two exceeding that allowed on the same certificate.

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:I've never heard and I doubt the 170 and the 172 where ever on the same certificate. There was to much of a difference between the two exceeding that allowed on the same certificate.

They were never on the same certificate ever!

I read the bit about the same type certificate on Wikipedia. Pretty certain that I have seen it elsewhere on the web too.
but it could all trace back to Wiki.

Del Lehman at Mountain Airframe in Mena, AR will do an excellent job on installing your baggage door on a 337 Field Approval. He has done several on club member 170s and does beautiful work.

hilltop170 wrote:Del Lehman at Mountain Airframe in Mena, AR will do an excellent job on installing your baggage door on a 337 Field Approval. He has done several on club member 170s and does beautiful work.

Del did mine on Harry Dellickers STC...not on field approval.