Extremely rough engine that cleared up on its own?

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:42 am

Mike, there are two versions of TCP.
One, made by Alcor in San Antonio, is an FAA approved avgas additive containing TriCresylPhosphate, which at the moment of combustion turns the lead in the fuel into lead phosphate, a harmless chemical that blows out the exhaust instead of polluting the inside of your engine, valves, spark plugs, etc.
TCP can be purchased direct from Alcor at $44/gallon. You add 1 ml per gallon of gas (or about 1 ounce per 10 gals of 100LL). It adds about 2 cents per gallon to your fuel costs, and completely gets rid of the lead problems in your combustion chambers and your oil.
TWO, ...the other type of TCP is a type of B.S., otherwise known as:

Grand Prarie, TX (down from Chuck, across from Pat.)

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:46 pm

Joe, re your TCP from Alaska- we used to call those "Smart Pills".
"Gosh, those Smart Pills taste like goat droppings" "Now you're getting smart!"
Rudy

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:38 pm

HA! That's right Rudy, and rabbits make smart pills too!

Jeff Matthews · Post by **Jeff Matthews** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:28 pm

Tom Cat Piss

N3243A · Post by **N3243A** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:57 pm

I think Ken way understated his predicament when he first encountered his engine rougness. The stretch of Geography between Norman Wells, NWT and Faro, Yukon is about 300 miles and may be one of the most remote mountain flying routes in North America. Being an "hour and half" out of Norman Wells when he first encountered problems put him smack dab in the middle of the continental divide in the Mackenzie Mountains. There is nothing but raw mountain wilderness in every direction for at least 150 miles or more, no towns, or native villages, and very little flat land for a forced landing. There is one little strip called MacMillan Pass that is about the only option on this route if you have trouble. This is remote even by Alaska standards in my opinion. To have a serious problem there is one of the last places you want to have it. Even if you walk away from a forced landing, the cost of helicopter recovery of the wreckage will likely be more than the salvage is worth so the plane will be a total loss. I imagine the seat cushion got a little "brown" during that stage!

Anyway Ken, I also vote for valve sticking. I would have thought twice about leaving Faro for Whitehorse though! Please elaborate more on your trip and view of the Canol trail route.

Bruce

lowNslow · Post by **lowNslow** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:05 pm

TCP is also available from Chief Aircraft 800-447-3408 or:
http://www.chiefaircraft.com

The price is 44.95, but there is a $20.00 UPS DOT hazardous material charge. That is quite a bit of money, but a gallon of TCP last a long long time.

km74 · Post by **km74** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:16 pm

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N3243A · Post by **N3243A** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:16 am

Ken,

How long and at what elevation is the Godlin Lake outfitter strip? Not a big deal to get out near gross weight?

Bruce

km74 · Post by **km74** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:52 am

Not sure about the length or the elevation. I was talking to local pilots at Norman Wells and they were saying that they went in there with Cherokee 140s so I wasn't that worried about it. Looking at it from the air it looks like its about 2000 feet maybe more?. I was staying pretty high after the engine did that so I didn't get a real good look at it. I have a picture of it from 8000 feet if you want it. But it is at quite a distance from the front of the plane.

Ken

km74 · Post by **km74** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:14 pm

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km74 · Post by **km74** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:32 am

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Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:15 pm

Ken

It really depends on where the rust is. If it's mild rust on the cylinder walls with slight pitting you'll probably be ok but if it's pitted at all on the camshaft you'll have a cam failure in 150 hours or less. It will slowly grind the cam lobe (s) down and you'll experience gradual power loss and metal in the filter (if you have one). If you don't have a filter I'd suggest you buy one right away so it will keep the small particles from circulating and continuously grinding away other parts. The good news is you'll probably find a gradual deteriation in any case not a sudden problem. Change oil and filter frquently and look carefully at what the filter traps.
Good Luck

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:20 pm

The most common place for rust in old overhauls is in the upper cylinders, above the top ring-line. If this is the only place your mechanic is talking about, then don't even consider it a problem.
If the rust is elsewhere, then you might have more with which to be concerned. Keep in mind that rust is usually only a problem on a moving part. Stationary parts like the upper cylinder walls above the ring-line, is not a problem, and should stop rusting with regular use of the engine. Internal parts like cams, cranks, etc,. will slowly take on a coating of varnish (sludge) that you should NOT wash off with cleaners, snake oils, (not even MMO), etc., because the varnish protects from further rusting. Cam lobes will normally stay polished due to action against the lifter bodies, unless they have already become rusted from long-term inactivity. In the latter case, they will either polish again, or they will accelerate wear and start showing metal in the screens/filters. In such case, it's unlikely that sudden roughness will subsequently disappear, but will instead remain or possibly increase. In extreme cases of cam-lobe wear the engine will fail to make static rpm (should be 2230-2330 with standard prop) even though it's compression tests may be excellent.
Bottom line: if all your mechanic was talking about during his "rust" evaluation concerned upper cylinders....then don't worry about it and go fly. A TCM field representative (who is paid to sell me factory remans) gave me that exact advice regarding both engines of my Baron (which had sat rusting in Florida for the previous 10 years), and now 8 years later those engines are still purring with their rusted upper-cylinders.
Note to everyone: Make it a habit to notice the rpm at the beginning of your takeoff roll so that if it should ever change you'll be aware of it. Mine is 2250 (which is in the middle of the allowable with my 7655 prop) and has stayed like that for 4 years. I'll notice if it changes. (And Dave Clark's advice on a filter conversion is certainly good.)

km74 · Post by **km74** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:24 am

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william halford · Post by **william halford** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:40 am

T.C.P. is like the American Express credit card. YOU DON"T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT. of all the aircraft i have owned TCP along with 50/50 ( 87/100 ) fuel goes in my fuel tank. Yes you can burn straight 87 but it is just a matter of time before those valves stick. Yes some of you might have as high as 200 plus hrs. without a stuck valve but it will happen it is just a matter of when. A very wise old dependable engine man that ran a shop for superior engines said " not useing TCP is like taken a shower with out soap". There is nothing wrong with straight 87 octane but you had better start putting TCP in with it.. 1 gal will treat 1200+gal of fuel.. Also if you burn 100LL go by any flight school and talk to the mech that does the 100hr insp.ask him about what straight 100LL does to that engine.Just another reason to add TCP..

I was told that the company was relocating , it will be the end of Oct before TCP will be avilable..170mb